New Mac-damage control

http://www.cheboygannews.com/articles/2005/12/14/news/news1.txt

oooooppppssss ....

Another memory for the New Mac. I gues this is why they are still doing sea trials. I've seen the Big Mac turn in the channel at Grand Haven many times but usually a little further down. I don't remember it coming in contact with the wall.

Stuff happens! Somewhat of an embarassing moment for whomever was at the helm.

Bob

The guys and gals at the Marinette Marine Corporation are probable a little upset that someone dinged their masterpiece and not done while breaking ice as intended!!

Not Good!
Break Breaker.

With wind and currents, it is sometimes impossible to be in total control.

A little embarrassing to say the least.

More than a little embarassing. Boo-boo like that can cost the skipper their command and/or career. The ship is equiped with bow thrusters and a funky rotating propulsion unit. This means there is even fewer excuses. The only thing that may save the captain's backside if that this is a new ship, pretty much the first of its kind and they are still trying to sort out handling characteristics.

Whoa! That is serious business. I guess huge responsibilities merit major consequences when things go wrong. That's really tough, though.

I heard today that the skipper has been relieved of his command. At the time of the crash a junior officer was at the helm. The blame has been put on the skipper. Hal

News story........

http://www.cheboygannews.com/articles/2005/12/16/news/news1.txt

Moved the wrong steering controls? How in the world can you mess that up?

Like hitting the gas pedal instead of the brakes.

bobo

New ship, pretty much a new class, probably something new from what had been seen before. With the propulsion pod replacing the traditional rudder and with bow thrusters in play, I'm sure it is a very different operation to park this ship than it has been in the past. That is why you drill and practice, part of what might be done during sea trials and a shakedown cruise.

In the sea services, the captain is "the" man (or woman). Everything that happens on their ship is their responsibility. This includes training the crew and insuring they are fully capable of performing all tasks, up to and including things like what will eventually become a routine parking operation.

The article Mary linked to said Capt Triner was "commanding the Mackinaw" which indicates to me he had the conn. Remember, folks, that the captain does not physically drive the vessel as you would your auto. They issue commands to crew members at various stations, especially the helmsman, who actually operate the controls. It would be expected that the captain would actually be in charge for such operations, especially on a new ship. Not familiar with the bridge of the ship, but it is possible that what the crew member was responsible for may have been nothing more than something simiar to a joy stick on a computer game (an incredibly powerful joystick for sure, but something along those lines.

When something like this happens, officially their commander (the admiral) "loses confidence" in the person's abilities. As I mentioned earlier, the only mitigating circumstances that may save the skipper is the brand new ship thing for which the admiral may cut him some slack.

Did a little looking around the new Mac's web page (they have already taken down Big Mac's page as far as I can tell) and found this picture of the bridge. Looking at this picture, one thing you don't see standing out is the good old trational ship's wheel. If we had a shot of the console that the man in the orange jumpsuit is in, you would be able to see the controls that the crew use to actually drive the ship, I do believe.

With all the electronics and assorted gadgets and gizmos on this ship it would be fascinating to take a ride and see how they all control the ship. As with all new ships, the electronics have become so important that I wonder when the Chief Engineer will be replaced with the Chief Computer Tech whose assistant is the Chief Electrician!

Baby Mac web page

Re the wheel...I know that, on QM2, the ship is propelled by a joystick instead of a traditional wheel. I think this is because of the azimuthig pods, which are too adjustable to be controlled with a simple wheel. Does anyone know if the Baby Mac has the same thing?

It seems that big wheels are falling out of fashion. Even the 40-year-old QE2 has a tiny, 1 foot diameter wheel. These days, technology has moved beyond it. When you think about it, it's amazing what technological marvels modern ships like QM2 and Baby Mac are like compared to their ancestors QE2 and Big Mac. Big leaps in the past few decades.

Noted in earlier post and discussed on the Baby Mac web site.

I have been on this ship many times since I work down at Marinette Marine. Yes there is a joystick in the bridge that the crew can use to steer the ship. There are also a bunch of stations all over (including one that you can pick up and move) that are circlular in a way. picture a bowling ball cut in half and that's what they look like with a power lever on the top. To turn the azipods all you do is rotate it and use the lever for forward and reverse thrust. The control for the bow thruster is the same but it doesn't rotate like the others.

Ok, i found a pic of the controls I was talking about. here is the one that can be picked up and moved to another location on the bridge. http://www.uscg.mil/d9/glib/images/BST3/DSC_0162.JPG

here is 1 of the 2 types of joysticks used to steer the ship. http://www.uscg.mil/d9/glib/ConstructionsPics/GLIB06DEC04%20001_edited.jpg

It's a great website; the "pics and vids" link shows some wonderful shots but no captions for novices like myself. Firetender posted the very two pictures I was going to reference and ask about - I was going to ask if that was what Dave was talking about. Thanks for answering my questions, Firetender.

Here is a video of the new Mackinaw entering the channel in Grand Haven.
http://wm.gannett.speedera.net/wm.gannett/wzzm/121205_mackinaw_comes_in.wmv

Brilliant video...

Boy it sure looks like they ran right into that wall. Your could almost hear the "OH S**T!"

Mike

Suzanne, that's terrific footage! Thanks for sharing it with us.

Suspended skipper departs ship

Triner says he cannot be here while investigation of accident is conducted

http://www.cheboygannews.com/articles/2005/12/20/news/news1.txt

Will be interesting to see how the situation with Capt Triner develops. To split a fine hair, I would believe he isn't even the Commanding Officer - if this was a Navy ship, I do believe he would be considered the Prosepctive Commanding Officer (PCO) until such time as the ship is placed in commission. I don't believe Baby Mack is yet considered a commisioned cutter in the CG. Even though they have all but stripped references to Big Mac from the CG web site, Baby Mac is not listed. Can't believe the CG would have two ships in commission at the same time with the same name, even though they have different hull numbers.

Article is interesting in noting all the time and money CG has invested in Capt Trine prepping him for this command. Also seems to be a rather senior officer to command a ship this size?

Interesting story, Suzanne. Thanks for sharing.

Bob

Take a look at the Mac hitting the breakwall as it enters Grand Haven in this video.

http://wm.gannett.speedera.net/wm.gannett/wzzm/121205_mackinaw_comes_in.wmv

I've watched that video several times now. it almost looks like someone was "asleep at the wheel". That thing looks like it went straight into the wall. The channel doesn't even seem to be that narrow there. If you didn't know better you'd think they were trying to do it.
Mike

Thats what it looks like to me.

Totally agree, Mike. I've watched a couple of times, too, and you'd think they intentionally went for it. Suzznne, I hope you will keep us posted. Love the Cosmo Christmas avatar!!

From what I have been hearing they took the Mac off auto and switched it to manual control. When you switch to manual there is a delay and when the ship didn't respond to the commands they started to play with the joystick. Then all of a sudden the ship responded to every command it was given which caused it to hit the wall. Now I am not sure if that's what really happened but it makes perfect sense to me.

Firetender,

When I am delivering sailboats we always turn the autopilot off before entering the channel or harbor. Too much traffic, current eddies and unknowns inside. I am shocked that the "professionals" would bring a cutter in on auto. If that is what really happened the officer of the deck should be joining the skipper on the beach.

Dan

I love the way you put that, Dan.

Captains on the bridge, Captain probably had the conn effectively making him the OOD. Even if a junior officer was driving, Captain could have overruled him/her.

What Firetender noted goes back to an earlier comment that I made - this is an entirely new ship and type of ship for the CG. There will be a learning curve about how to make it work correctly. The error here is not having tried to switch from auto to manual before hand - like out in open water where the only thing they might run into was a wave, well before they had to do it "for real".

I'm sure driving a ship like the Baby Mac is an entirely new experience for the Captain and crew. It will take a while to learn how the various propulsion systems (like the azipod) affect handling.

Give him a desk, maybe he can control that better. No excuses!! He's the Captain, he's in charge, he's responsible!! He IS a trained professional or he wouldn't be in command of such an important vessel.

That very well could have been a small boat, children swimming, etc. etc. Good thing this happened now and not in the summer when the channel would have been filled with boaters.

Having been an OOD on a 378 foot high endurance CG cutter, I just have to throw in my two cents worth. Coast Guard investigations are usually very thorough and very fair. Given that, I will wait for the final conclusions of the investigation and probably accept them as well as their recommendations for the CO.

Also Dave, I was on the Cutter MELLON in Honolulu which was 378 feet long. We had a Captain as a CO, and a senior one at that. It was crazy when we entered Pearl Harbor watching all of the Navy ships rendering honors to us as they passed. Nuclear subs, Spruance class destroyers, cruisers. So it's not all that unusual for a Captain to be the CO of what you Navy guys would consider a somewhat small ship.

Hope it all works out well, but so far it seems unimpressive to me.

Rich (the WO)

Me too! The investigation is going on and it will be thorough and fair. I'm wishing for Captain Triner, and his family, the very best of outcomes. He has had a long and honorable career in the Coast Guard.

Judy