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Correct me if I'm wrong...

Posted By: Bob M

Correct me if I'm wrong... - 12/23/05 07:57 PM

I was totally perturbed with a news story I heard on FOX25-TV out of Boston this morning. I thank FOX25 for bringing this insult to tradition to light.

(Reader's Digest version:) The powers to be at the Middle School in Medway, Massachusetts, in an attempt to be politically correct, are trying to eliminate any mention of Christmas to the children in their school. You can't sing "We wish you a Merry Christmas" at the holiday show. You can sing "We wish you a swinging holiday". You can't mention a Christmas Tree. Instead you have to call it a "magical tree". Kids are not allowed to wear the colors red & green together at school.

Talk about being extremely narrow minded! This crap is suppose to promote diversity? How about letting the children from different races and religions share their traditions with each other? This situation stinks! I don't live in Millis but if I did, I would be asking for some firings within the school leadership. Diversity comes from sharing and accepting, not from eliminating traditions.

This reminds me of a Harry Chapin song from many years ago. The title was "Flowers are Red, Green leaves are green" (I think). The chorus went something like this: "Flowers are red, green leaves are green, there's no need to see flowers any other way than the way they've always have been seen..."

Children should be taught and learn new things at school. They should not be stifled into believing that while in school they have to live in a box with no mention of the holiday season. We all know that as soon as they leave the school grounds that the holiday season is being celebrated every where you go. As the song says, "It's the most wonderful time of the year!" Why spoil it at school.

Okay, I'm climbing down from my soapbox now. Merry Christmas everyone!

Bob M
Posted By: Webmaster

Re: Correct me if I'm wrong... - 12/23/05 08:40 PM

Don't you mean "Happy Holidays, Everyone", Bob?
Posted By: Bob Ott

Re: Correct me if I'm wrong... - 12/23/05 08:52 PM

No John,

I'm sure he means Merry Christmas Everyone. And I agree from the bottom of my heart.

bobo
Posted By: rscroope

Re: Correct me if I'm wrong... - 12/23/05 09:04 PM

Merry Christmas Everyone, and pc eek John.
Bob
Posted By: WackoPaul

Re: Correct me if I'm wrong... - 12/23/05 09:09 PM

No Bob, it's Happy Winter Holiday!

Louden County School
Posted By: MtnHkr

Re: Correct me if I'm wrong... - 12/24/05 12:20 AM

Naaah! It's Merry Christmas everyone!

Winter Holiday Bah Humbug!!!!
Posted By: WackoPaul

Re: Correct me if I'm wrong... - 12/24/05 12:27 AM

Both John and I posted with our tongues firmly planted in our cheeks!!

Merry Christmas to all and to all a Good Night!!
Posted By: beachcomber

Re: Correct me if I'm wrong... - 12/24/05 12:50 AM

At this time of year, I got around all the garbage - and not once was a principal able to tell me to stifle. Halloween and Christmas have been outlawed in the fourth largest school district in the nation for several years. At Halloween, I taught a Social Studies unit contrasting the U.S. traditions of Halloween and those of Dias de Muertos in Mexico. One year, the principal had a big frown on her face when she saw a skeleton on my classroom door - then she saw the caption (science bone lesson). She kept quiet.

At Christmastime, I did like Bob says, I taught a Social Studies unit about Jewish and Christian traditions. We did the usual Christmas stuff but I also had one of my Jewish colleagues talk to the kids about the traditions of Hannukah and we read about it and did activities. We should be learning from each other and about each other. If our kids grow up knowing and understanding, we will have less bigotry, bias and discrimination.
Posted By: WackoPaul

Re: Correct me if I'm wrong... - 12/24/05 01:47 AM

You Rock, Grace!!
Posted By: flacoastie

Re: Correct me if I'm wrong... - 12/24/05 02:18 AM

And I DITTO what Paul said. Merry Christmas to all.
Posted By: Webmaster

Re: Correct me if I'm wrong... - 12/24/05 04:48 AM

Since early November, I've been working part time at a Barnes & Noble - 20-30 hours a week. Mostly in the cash-wrap area.

It's a real change for me. I work primarily by myself otherwise in my home office and the B&N experience gives me a chance to interact with several hundred people in an evening. The last time I worked in retail was in 1966.

I try to observe what people are buying and ask questions or make comments about their plans. If a person is buying a guide to Italy, I'll ask about their trip. If they are buying Christmas wrap or cards, I'll wish them a Merry Christmas. If they are buying Hannukah items or items on Jewish history, I'll wish them a Happy Hannukah.

If they are wearing Christmas clothing, I'll wish them a Merry Christmas.

Our Methodist Church has an affiliate relationship with a Jewish Congregation and now with a Muslim Mosque and we are trying to learn more about each others beliefs and celebrations.

We are also partnering with a mostly African American United Methodist Church in New Orleans (Upper 9th Ward) and this will be a long-term project to help them get their church back open. Click Here, then on Pictures and the names of the images.

While many religious groups seem to believe "it's our way or no way," we believe that God loves us all.

God's in charge, but not necessarily in control. God didn't send Katrina to New Orleans or cause the tsunami in SE Asia. How we react and help each other in these times of trial and tribulation pleases God or causes God angst.
Posted By: beachcomber

Re: Correct me if I'm wrong... - 12/24/05 06:45 AM

Wonderfully well put, John. You obviously belong to a church with a great and open vision. The partnership you have with other religions will do volumes to promote the brotherhood of mankind. We were all made by the same maker, no matter by which name we call Him.

I think it's so cool that you are working at a Barnes & Noble; it's a great way to interact with a lot of people - and, for the better part, they're people who enjoy books. I love it when people take the time to comment or inquire about my purchases; it's a personal touch which can brighten one's day.
Posted By: WisKeeper

Re: Correct me if I'm wrong... - 12/24/05 07:05 AM

Be careful of this type of news. A religious group from out of state started a big stink about a small school district in Wisconsin and the religous group had their facts totally wrong. They had people calling the Governors office, the State Dept of Public Instruction, and the local school district. They said the school made students change the words to Silent Night before they could sing it in a school play. This was totally untrue. There were threats made against the school district and the behavior was very un-Christian-like. Their actions really hurt the children who chose to do this play.

Happy Holidays! People have been saying Happy Holidays for as long as I can remember. It was never meant to be anti-Christmas.

Holiday is shortened from Holy Day. Now tell me how that is anti-religious?
Posted By: mombo

Re: Correct me if I'm wrong... - 12/24/05 04:08 PM

A new friend of mine is Jewish. Recently I heard her wishing someone a Merry Christmas. So I told her the bit about saying Happy Holidays and the reason for all the to-do this year. She replied, "Oh people wish me Merry Christmas all the time. I don't care what they say. We celebrate Hanukkah and Christmas! I'm just happy that people are thinking of me." smile

And Suzanne is right. Happy Holidays and Seasons Greeting have been around for a long, long time!

So say what you will, the important thing is that you're expressing a wish of good tidings (whatever tidings is....).
Posted By: WisKeeper

Re: Correct me if I'm wrong... - 12/24/05 07:39 PM

Thats a great attitude from your friend Mombo! Instead of all the arguing about terms, people need to remember to be kind and loving towards others this time of year. (All year long would be good too!)
Posted By: seagirt

Re: Correct me if I'm wrong... - 12/24/05 08:45 PM

When you really think about it, "Happy Holidays" isn't really a derogatory term or anything, towards any religion. It's more a "catchall" for the various things that happen in December. Not only does it remove any ambiguity about Christmas or Hannukah, but it also throws in a wish for a Happy New Year (just a week later). So it's more to prevent you from taking 20 seconds to give a greeting to someone.
Posted By: Bigbird

Re: Correct me if I'm wrong... - 12/25/05 02:02 AM

I just perused this topic briefly so forgive me if I post something that's a repeat, but I agree with what (among others) Greg said about it being a catch-all phrase when you say Happy Holidays, and though I respect different cultures that want to celebrate whatever they choose to call it, I say have a happy holiday if I have a question of ethnicity/belief, or sometimes it's just what comes out of my mouth; and it is better than singing a Mary Poppins song for everyone you meet (Supercalafragilistic... for those who were wondering) wink . I did speak to a Christian woman today that works for Pat Robertson's group (CBN) here in VA Beach today and she was looking for Hannukah candles as (the Jewish lady mentioned earlier) they celebrate both now. I wonder if the Christians and the Jews are becoming allies since the Jews were the "promised people", a good will gesture, or they realize that either one may not have all of the answers?!? wink :p

Steve
Posted By: Webmaster

Re: Correct me if I'm wrong... - 12/25/05 03:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Grace:
...I think it's so cool that you are working at a Barnes & Noble; it's a great way to interact with a lot of people - and, for the better part, they're people who enjoy books. I love it when people take the time to comment or inquire about my purchases; it's a personal touch which can brighten one's day...
I waited on Hugh Downs and his wife today. Didn't recognize him at first, but then said you are "Mr Hugh Downs -- it's an honor to meet you." He said "Nice to meet you, what's your name.. and offered his hand to shake." Later his wife came back to my window and I sold her a member card which carries a 10% discount. He again came back and purchased more items.

About 10 days ago, I waited on Vince Vaughn and Jennifer Anniston. They were very nice - didn't have an entourage or any paparazzi trailing them. Sold him a member card also.

My only claims to fame at this part time Holiday job so far. smile
Posted By: Bigbird

Re: Correct me if I'm wrong... - 12/25/05 04:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by JChidester:
About 10 days ago, I waited on Vince Vaughn and Jennifer Anniston. They were very nice - didn't have an entourage or any paparazzi trailing them.
Hmmmm, things are laid back in AZ, eh!?! cool

Steve
Posted By: beachcomber

Re: Correct me if I'm wrong... - 12/25/05 05:08 AM

Some years ago I thought that I might move to Arizona. It is beautiful country - obviously, a lot of celebs think so, too.
Posted By: bright eyes

Re: Correct me if I'm wrong... - 12/25/05 04:46 PM

Remember: "the reason for the season"

Merry CHRISTmas!
Posted By: WisKeeper

Re: Correct me if I'm wrong... - 12/28/05 04:38 AM

Ridgeway Christmas stolen
http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/column/index.php?ntid=66517&ntpid=1
Posted By: Shortcake

Re: Correct me if I'm wrong... - 01/08/06 04:01 PM

I am so far behind in reading all my old emails that piled up while I was working all those way to many hours for so many months. But now that I have some time to kill as I want to, I am going back and reading all those forwarded things that I had skipped over before. And in doing so I came upon one that reminded me of this thread on the forums.

I know it's too late now, but lets remember this one for next year. Here is my forwarded email:

Quote:
By Debbie Daniel

I'm on a "Merry Christmas" mission and I'm in full throttle. My little yellow VW Beetle has turned into a Christmas billboard with Merry Christmas written across the back window. Yes, I've decided to trek off to work everyday on the public highways with a message that seems to offend people.

At stop lights, I even turn my music up a little louder, and to top it off, I sing along with it. Don't I know that stopping at a red light to roll my windows down only to share the joy of Christmas carols on public streets is a No-No? Don't I fear the Christmas Gestapo and those who would have me remove the written message from my car?

I'm sorry folks, but the only person I'm concerned about "offending" during this Christmas season is the Lord himself. LEAVE THAT MANGER ALONE! We've allowed the Baby Jesus to be kicked out of His lowly manger, and those offended by Christmas are still not happy.

I refuse to let this happen. I'm going to do my part to make sure "Merry Christmas" doesn't become extinct. Because like it or not, if the believers in Christmas don't take a stand now, it's gone forever.

Listen folks, the Christian community has been underestimated before; we will have to show ourselves again.

I walked into a Wendy's Restaurant the other day and was rather exuberant with my "Merry Christmas" greeting to the manager. He didn't have much of a response and I said, "Where's your Christmas spirit?" He said, "We're not allowed to use the words "Merry Christmas" when greeting customers. We can only say "Happy Holiday."

This morning I grabbed a quick breakfast at a Whataburger Restaurant. I noticed there wasn't a single decoration in the store. I asked the manager why they weren't decorated for Christmas. He told me the corporate headquarters decided not to send any decorations to any of their stores, and he didn't know why.

After I heard about all the Macy's and Federated Stores taking down their Merry Christmas signs, the Target stores not allowing the Salvation Army to "Ring the Christmas bells," and the many incidents of children, choirs, and bands not allowed to play or sing Christmas carols, I realized it was happening right here in my own little Texas town.

How can this be? Not Texas!

We do, however, have a store, Hobby Lobby, that plays nothing but Christmas carols during the season. On Christmas Day they run a full page ad in our local newspaper. That ad is not to promote the store, but uses the entire page to tell the story of Jesus' birth. Now that's taking a stand. We need to thank them.

When I saw a news report the other evening of children being taught new words to a song we've sung for years - "We Wish You a Merry Christmas" - I was saddened to hear "We Wish You a Splendid Holiday."

I know now that it's just a matter of time that the "Merry Christmas" greetings will be gone. Look around your town. Notice the "Holiday" greetings and not "Christmas." It's happening right before our very eyes.

Start singing the songs; go down the streets of America singing to your heart's content. Get some of those wash-off markers that these kids use to write on their car windows when they're rooting for their hometown football team. It's easy to do, and if a torrential rain washes it off, write it on there again.

We've got to get this message out. "Go Tell It On the Mountain . . . that Jesus Christ is Born." Sing it, speak it, be a billboard for our Lord.

The story of this "Baby Jesus" alone has brought about more goodwill at this time of year than any other day we celebrate. How can we sit back and allow Him to be snuffed out of our lives?

Is it Jesus, or is it His followers that the "offended" don't like? What kind of revulsion galvanizes one to campaign so vehemently against the mere mention of His name, the mere singing of a carol, or the mere visual of a sign that says "Merry Christmas?"

I can listen to my own boss at work use some of the vilest words and follow up with, "Excuse my French." I may cringe inside at his damning of God's name, but I tolerate it. So if you don't like me wishing you a "Merry Christmas," I'll say, "Excuse my joy." You may cringe that I celebrate the birth of Jesus, but just tolerate it.

I cannot be concerned that "Merry Christmas" offends you. If I'm not careful, the day will come when saying I'm a Christian will offend you.

I'm offended that you're offended. How about that?

When we get to a point that we can no longer take part in a tradition we hold dear, we have no choice; we either defend that tradition or we give it up to those who say NO. That's it . . . period. So, which will it be?

I'm not giving up my "Merry Christmas" joy to anyone. If I know of someone that celebrates another holiday during this time of year, I will be glad to wish them whatever holiday they want. Just tell me what it is and I'll shout it to the world and wish you a grand celebration.

Just give me Christmas. To you merchants: Stop being so hypocritical and "filling your tills" on the back of Jesus! Who do you think is the symbol of giving at this time of year? It was the wise men bringing gifts to the newborn Christ-child.

You want your coffers full, but have ordered your employees to take down all the Merry Christmas signs. If that's the case, I'll buy gifts at a place that understands my joy.

If you're worried about offending someone, you just did. The most recent Newsweek survey shows that 82% of Americans believe that Jesus is the Son of God. So, in trying not to offend a few, you've offended many.

It's okay to jump into the "Merry Christmas" spirit when it fills your cash register, but let's call it something else . . . and don't stop giving . . . and don't stop buying. . . we'll just change the name and you'll never know the difference.

I know the difference and I'm feeling it greatly. It's hard not to be aware that townships across our country have actually banned the singing of Christmas carols because it might offend someone. And it's not just the religious songs; it's the secular ones too. No more "Jingle Bells" or "Rudolph, the Red-Nosed Reindeer" because they're associated with Christmas. Boy, aren't we getting sensitive?

If we're not celebrating Christmas for the hope it gives with the birth of our Savior . . . there is no hope!

I noticed a few years ago that we changed the name of Abraham Lincoln's and George Washington's birthday so as to be all inclusive regarding the Presidents. Hark, if we should recognize anyone as exceptional. Now it's called Presidents' Day.

Well, if we're going to be so all inclusive, next month I'll have to refer to Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Day as Civil Rights Leaders' Day. We don't want to exclude great Americans like Rosa Parks or Cesar Chavez, do we? And to think that Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton might be left out.

We might need to change Mother's Day, Father's Day, and Grandparents' Day to All Parents' Day. Just lump them all together.

It sounds ridiculous, doesn't it? So what's the difference?

My freedom to celebrate Christmas in the tradition of the Christian religion is as much my right as it is your right to be offended by it. So what are we going to do? Did anyone hear me . . . what are we going to do?

Do we defend a person's right to go forward with a time tested tradition (how about 2000 years?), or do we defend a person's right to end it all because they're offended? As long as we live in this great land and have the freedom to express ourselves and what we believe in, we will always offend someone.

If we try to make everything right for everyone, we won't have anything for anyone.

May you always have Christmas in your heart!
Posted By: Bob M

Re: Correct me if I'm wrong... - 01/08/06 05:24 PM

Quote:
When I saw a news report the other evening of children being taught new words to a song we've sung for years - "We Wish You a Merry Christmas" - I was saddened to hear "We Wish You a Splendid Holiday."
Just imagine if every parent who attended their kids school holiday celebrations sang the correct words, the original words, very loudly. The school administration can't keep them after school or suspend them. Ban them from school performances? Then there wouldn't be anybody there except for the the people who caused the problem in the first place.

I can hear it now: We wish you a Merry Christmas right over that "splendid holiday crap". Music to our ears, for sure!

smile Bob smile
Posted By: Lighthouse Duo

Re: Correct me if I'm wrong... - 01/08/06 06:11 PM

I am with you Bob ... I think all this so called correctness is getting out of hand!

So I hope you all had a

Merry Chirstmas!

Posted By: Bob Ott

Re: Correct me if I'm wrong... - 01/08/06 08:01 PM

Quote:
We wish you a Merry Christmas right over that "splendid holiday crap".
Bob,

And I would sing Merry Christmas as loud as I could.

bobo
Posted By: WisKeeper

Re: Correct me if I'm wrong... - 01/09/06 01:49 AM

Please read this story:

Ridgeway Christmas stolen
http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/column/index.php?ntid=66517&ntpid=1
Posted By: Bob Ott

Re: Correct me if I'm wrong... - 01/09/06 02:22 AM

Suzanne,

Thanks for the post. It will be a cold day in hell before I donate anything to them. It's disgusting to realize the lengths that some people will go to destroy the Christmas activities of the children.

bobo
Posted By: WisKeeper

Re: Correct me if I'm wrong... - 02/04/06 06:54 AM

Followup on the Dodgeville situation:

Editorial in the Capital Times Newspaper 1/29/2006.

MORE POWER TO DODGEVILLE

The Dodgeville school district deserves credit for seeking an apology from a Florida based group that peddled misinformation about the district in order to convince Americans that Christmas was "under attack" in public schools.

In December, an organization that calls itself the Liberty Counsel leaped into the faked-up national "debate" about a so-called "war on Christmas" -- which was, essentially, a scheme by the Fox Cable News network to drive up ratings-- by claiming that Ridgeway Elementary School in the Dodgeville District had "decided to eliminate Christmas from the Christmas season."

The charge, which the Liberty Counsel used to publicize itself and to solicit donations, was false.

The Iowa County school district had not eliminated Christmas songs such as "Silent Night" from holiday programs and was not in any way "at war with Christmas".

That fact was made clear by the school district, which even posted a detailed explanation of its policies and the elementary school holiday program on its Web site But the Liberty Counsel kept peddling misinformation.

Now, the district is demanding a widely distributed apology, a retraction of claims that its policies are "hostile" to the U.S. Constitution and damages from the Florida Group.

In a letter to the Liberty Counsel, the district's lawyer, Eileen Brown, has written: "Your dissemination of false and misleading information and your threats of specious and frivolous litigation resulted in enormous cost to the district. You have yet to present the facts either through a press release, one of your 'alerts' or through any other means."

The letter to the Liberty Counsel also makes blunt note of the fact that "you used this red herring to attempt to collect money through the form of donations.

Some of the targets of right wing television and radio show hosts who were trying to garner higher ratings by stirring up fears about a "war on Christmas," and of the attacks made by groups seeking attention from those hosts, have simply decided to brush off the smears and slurs.

But Dodgeville officials have decided to hold groups such as the Liberty Counsel to account. And that is an appropriate act.

Hopefully, by pressing for a very public apology and a retraction, Dodgeville will force the "war on Christmas" crowd to be a little more responsible next year.

But, at the very least, the Dodgeville School District is serving its mission as a educational institution.

By challenging the Liberty Counsel, it is teaching students to stand up to bullies.

Ironically, considering the context of the dispute, it is even teaching a lesson regarding the values of one of the world's great religions.

When the Liberty Counsel refused to acknowledge that it was wrong -- even after the facts had been pointed out to it -- it fell to the superintendent of the Dodgeville district, to note the striking incongruity of a group that proclaims itself to be "Christian" acting as the Liberty Counsel has.

"I am surprised that the Liberty Counsel president Mathew Staver has chosen this approach, since he is representing a Christian organization that certainly upholds the Ten Commandments," said the superintendent. " He is not honoring the commandment that thou shalt not bear false witness."

This round goes to the Dodgeville School District. the Liberty Counsel should acknowledge its sins and beg for forgiveness.

The Editors of the Capital Times Newspaper
Posted By: beachcomber

Re: Correct me if I'm wrong... - 02/04/06 08:35 AM

Thanks for the followup, Suzanne. Some good
"Christians" do the most unChristian things.
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