Updated Retirement Info?

There used to be an updated sheet that was available for pieces issued to date and various info including retirement dates. I know they are now pushing a book, which if not cost prohibitive, would be the best option (except that it is only up-to-date until date printed), but for those who can't afford, or want to keep up with info after the book is published, is there another option as I notice that some of the archive pages are removed (or show up as an error) when trying to access on site, as well as some who show up as retired (like Battery Point for instance) have no date of retirement and/or piece count issued adjustment where applicable under the year-by-year issue listing. Was trying to update my file system and am running into these problems in the first few, so thought I'd ask to save frustration and wasted effort.

Also, FYI at HL/LH Mkt. ...South Haven COA's map has it located on the eastern shore of WI!?

I agree. My records have not been updated for retirement dates for HL pieces. When the company was owned by the Youngers, those sheets were available at HL events.

I believe that the short answer here is "different owner, different philosophy" as to what information is provided. As a rule, the production size is no longer provided, with the same going for information as to when an edition retires. You will have exceptions, such as the fact that the Christmas edition has retired, but it was considered a timed edition. The same would be true for event pieces.

BB, you might check LH Depot's site to check pricing on the Collector's Guide. I believe they are deep discounting it. Shipping could hose you, but they have been having assorted deals lately.

At least they show South Haven on the correct lake . . .

Thanks Dave. No luck thus far doing a search though I know I've seen it mentioned there. Hopefully they didn't scrap it's production too!?!

Steve, are you asking if they scrapped production of the book or the list? Don't think there is anything in the works for a second edition of the book. The old data (the retired site) was lost in the migration to new servers, I believe. The information most likely still exists, but all the pointers need to be updated and corrected to show the new location. Don't expect to see a listing of production numbers / retirement dates for production since the sale of the company. There have been "rough" numbers and approximations dropped at various times by Tony, but don't think he has shared any specific info.

Again, thanks! I was saying the way that LH Depot is streamlining inventory, maybe they are no longer carrying the book as I'm still having no luck finding it though I know they were offering a good deal on it.

Ultimately the book would be best but the old list-type would suffice for what I was attempting.

Steve,

LHD's latest catalogue "Last Minute Gift Ideas" has John's "Official Harbour Lights Collector's Guide" listed at $18.88, S&H = $7.99. Their phone is (800) 758-1444.

Sandy

Thanks Sandy! I just got an email offer (which I deleted but may be able to recover) for 15% off and $6.99 S&H.

Hmmmm, missed that one; already went to LHD and used the above "special" promo. At least I know I'll get this one as E-Bay is usually dependable, but still a crap shoot.

Check out LHD latest offer out today for discounts on some HL up to 80% off list!

Why don't they just give them away for free instead of prolonging the suffering....

They are killing the other HL dealers!

I've been looking over my collector's guide and after taking a break from all of the reading (after the Younger's and before John and Mark Sherman), I decided to just peruse the lights and though it seems a tad incomplete (due to lack of thorough record keeping?) and would be nice to have an addendum that we could add on for each year versus doing a whole nother book, it's worth the price and a good job (although the Tybee GLOW says it was 3"x3" and $16.95 ...coincidentally the same size, price and release date as the LL ) by all involved!

That's an error I didn't have marked up in my "corrections" copy of the book.

I also added a note today about the Big Bay Certificate error (...hand numbered edition of 5,000)

As for being incomplete... The only two I can think of that were omitted were ornaments for Dunkirk and Rockland Breakwater.

The Official Collectors Guide is an outstanding book. John & Paul did an outstanding job. Considering the volume of info, a few errors seem almost impossible to avoid.

This book has saved me so much research time in the last three years. The value in priceless !!!

My take on either an addendum or revision is that there are no plans for one by John. If it's ever done, someone else is going to have to step up and take it on.

Sorry, Loon...

The market for an update just isn't big enough to warrant the time and expenses. 5,000 original books were ordered; HL still has them in stock.

Cost of generating a new book would be prohibitive; the cost of doing a supplement for 2006-2009 would be less -- but I don't believe there is sufficient demand to make it a financial success.

Harbour Lights paid for the publishing costs up front. They may have just broken even by now.

I estimate about 1,800-1,900 hours of my time on the book. There were no 'advances'.

A new author would have to start from scratch.

?? ?? John, I think you must of read my last post incorrectly ???

I was commenting on this:

My message is it doesn't matter who might do it; there's not enough of a market to pay for the cost of printing, let alone the hours put into the project.

Since a new guide and printed supplements to the current guide have been pretty much eliminated as a possibility, could a new section of our CF be opened to do updates to the original guidebook using the original type of layout and format?

A portion of this new section could also be devoted to errors in the original guide so we could correct our original guides.

Then CF members or guests could copy updates to carry with them in some form. And updates and error correction could be done on an ongoing basis with a knowledgible moderator overseeing. Maybe various volunteers could even help do the updates.

John, I see the point your making. But you are assumming current cost & technology. I would think it's possible in the near future to produce a book at a much lesser cost.

I agree. I think it would be great to have a section of the CF devoted to updates. I'd volunteer to help in any way.

Cathy

I think that Daniel would also be a perfect candidate for the job. Daniel and Cathy could be our Jacksonville connection into the upkeep of the information.

Sounds like a great idea.

Is Daniel still around? He would be a perfect candidate if he's willing. I miss his posts.

Larry

He's still around. In fact he just receently made a post trying to sell some of his double digit pieces.

flacoastie, Lighthouse Loon, Imyhre, et all:

I'd give a great second to Daniel taking the lead!! Of course, he'd need some volunteers to help--some have already volunteered.

Maybe Daniel could start the New Year by joining us again. I know many have been waiting like myself. We've really missed his valuable contributions to the CF!

Max

Anyone think it would be a good idea to convert the info in the Offical Collector Guide to a software program?

Maybe a onetime initial cost to buy the program and database on a CD, then have a yearly downloadable update with the new release and updated secondary market values. Daniel would be an excellent person to update the secondary market prices.

Please recognize that the contents of The Official Collectors Guide are copyrighted 2006 by Lighthouse Marketing Ltd. The complete statement is on the first page of the book.

Thus my previous comment "A new author would have to start from scratch."

I don't see why we can't just come up with something on our own. We really don't have to include any info from the Collectors Guide. We would just include everything that has been produced since the book was written. Then we wouldn't be hindered by copyright laws. Maybe I just don't understand everything that is involved.

Cathy

Cathy, I think John is refering to my thoughts on a software program, not the idea of updated info since the OCG was published.

John, My thinking on the software program was that Harbour Lights would be in charge with Paul and your input. Sort of a OCG version 2. Otherwise, yes the new author would have to start from scratch.

I didn't mean to strike a nerve with my idea, just trying to find a way to keep the info current.

Good Thursday Morning!

John is correct A Collectors' Guide Supplement, at this point in time, would not make good business sense.

Please know that with the many "retirements", GLOWS that were "suspended", Special Edition LLOM, I am working to be sure a complete and accurate Harbour Lights Product history is ready for January 2010.

AJC

thanks Tony, we'll all be looking for it.

This has been asked for, talked about, sorely needed, and not made an updated appearance for years.

Looking for it with great expectation!!

Some history of the "Collectors Guide"
web page

for those who didn't know or have forgotten, this is John & Paul's 'labor of love'

Hey Bob, thanks for bringing back that old thread. I read all the posts in that thread and the linked one in the wee hours. It was like fast-forwarding through the 'rush' of creating, announcing and getting the book published again.

Great memories. Thanks again to Paul and Grace and Don Devine and Tim Aucremann, Daniel Kirsh, Mark Sherman, Rod Watson and the extended Younger family. Thanks to those who provided early input and kept the secret.

My corrected copy has several score of colored sticky tabs on pages that have one or more notes. Sometimes it was simply a typo (only a few of those.) A couple of missing ornaments, a couple of incorrect photos used, sometimes information that previously wasn't available like the "Name a Lighthouse Winner" for the last two years that was offered.

There was a previous thread on the errata with a link. Only a few more have surfaced since that listing. Sandy has been helpful in that area; perhaps she can find that thread.

It was a lot of work and I had a lot of pride in the publication.

I became expert using Adobe InDesign (the software used to do the page composition and layout) and I learned about working with a printer in China.

I can say now "I'm a published author."

In the end, the book may have attracted some new collectors; and it may have revived some who had lost interest. I can't confirm it.

If your original copy is dog-eared; you can probably find a bargain priced one in origianl pristine condition with the original shrink wrap. Check with any Harbour Lights dealer. If they don't have one, they can still order them from HL.

I know I've said this many times, but I'll say it many more times.....

The Official Collectors Guide is PRICELESS !!!

I don't know what my HL collection would be like if I didn't buy it.

I'm thinking about buying a few copies and giving them out as Christmas presents.

Thanks for all the hardwork John !!!

Just as an update to what we have been talking about. I had a long talk with Tony today about what could be done or is being done along these lines of a Collectors Guide update. An update is not in the foreseeable future because of the cost and lack of sales. What is coming around Feb 1st is a complete update of product history with retirement dates, etc. This should satisfy most of the needs of the collector and Tony assures me that it will be very complete and contain just about what everyone wants. His word is good enough for me!

Tony also said that if anyone is looking for some Collectors Guides that HLs can fill their needs.

Sounds great to me !!!

Wow! That would be great to have that update!

Good Wednesday Morning!

I am still working on an updated Product History!

I remembered the Special Edition LLOM - by the way I have already completed one Special Edition LLOM for 2010 and received a second commission Tuesday!


Is there something more you would like me to add to the History? Write to:
tconstantino@harbourlights.com

AJC

As a "just recent collector" one of the first things I found out while online was the handbook. I went to order one, but almost didn't. At $52 with shipping I really hoped it would be worth it. It was, so when LHD had a deal for $18.88 I bought another one. I have also joined the "Collector's Society" and received my "East Chop" lighthouse. Apparently things have changed, so I might need some info or a point in the right direction. I had to call back for a "membership" number, because HL doesn't issue any cards. I also understand that B. Younger & assoc. have retired? I really could use an update on the status of HL. I have bought a few lights on eBay and on a couple of them the signature on the COA is a scribble, clearly not Kim's? Is this a new era for HL. To get back on topic...I am also looking for the correction list for the catalog. I do have some more questions, but I will first try to scour the pages for answers. Thank you very much.

All you ask is here on the CF. We just need to point you to the right threads.

I'll try to find a few of them. I'm sure others, especially the Saints know more.

Good Tuesday Morning!

The Product History update is being proofed; heaven help the poor person that has to review my typing!

I will promise to have the Product History in print by February.

I repeat my earlier request, if there is something you feel needs to be added - write tconstantino@harbourlights.com

Re: Membership Cards for the Harbour Lights Collectors' Society ... long gone!


AJC

Is the updated Product History going to be available on the HL website for reference too?

Where might I find the list of "corrections"? Thanks

The correction list to the Collectors Guide does not exist as far as I know except in John Chidester's notes. The guide was an excellent book put out by John and Paul Brady with input from several members of the Forums. It didn't sell well because of the decline in interest for lighthouses and Harbour Lights in general. An update with all the corrections will probably not happen. The only thing you can do is ask questions and when Tony at HLs put out his updated product list, keep it close by your Collectos Guide.

Here are some of the corrections..

Corrections

Good Thursday Morning!

I am finishing up the Product Hi

story, next week!

We will publish by mid-March! There will be several new catagories; including Limited Edition Little Lights and Thumbnails.

AJC

Good evening all,
I am waiting for the release of the "Product History" update with great anticipation. This is going to be awesome. I have been reading and re-reading the Collectors Guide, which is simply fascinating, while I wait!
I have been trying to put the last four years in some kind of folder, with what has been issued, and came across some problems and questions I hope can be answered.
For clarity, am I right in assuming that a "retired" light is one that the production run is finished, but they are still available for sale by dealers. Does this just apply to Limited Edition only?
Are "Special Editions" such as Collector's Society Exclusives, In-store events or Regional events handled differently? I only say that because, there are quite a few that I have seen with "Timed*" under the Edition column. This has me confused, as to the availability from dealers.
Lastly, the HarborLights.com website seems to need some TLC. I have surfed all over it and really enjoy everything. I am sure it isn't an easy task, but I hope the website can be repaired. Always looking for more information,

1. A "retired Piece" is one that has reached it's edition size OR one that has not reached it's edition size and production was stopped by Harbour Lights and is no longer available for sale to the "dealers" from Harbour Lights but may be available for years at the dealers themselves.

2. "Special Editions" are pieces that may or may not have a "Timed Availability" such as the examples you mentioned above. They usually have a "fixed" period such as Society Exclusives that run from May 1st to April 30th, Christmas Pieces that run from usually late summer till Dec. 31st, In-Store Event and Regional Event Pieces that usually run from spring till Dec. 31st. These pieces are then no longer available to the dealers from Harbour Lights but stll may sit on the dealers shelves for years. This has been the case for years but is now being changed by Harbour Lights/Lighthouse Depot as they just recently have advertised "retired Society Pieces, Christmas Pieces. etc. in the Lighthouse Depot Catalog that they had left over after the "Timed" date expired.

3. Other "Special Editions" may or may not have a "timed availability" but will have a "fixed edition" size if the "timed availability" does not apply. You may have a "retired" open edition that has been deemed retired by Harbour Lights for one reason or another and still have it available at a dealer but there is no way to really know how many of the product has been produced as you would with a limited edition.

Rich,
Thank you very much for the answers to my questions! I really do appreciate the sharing of knowledge. Now I understand the workings a whole lot better.
While the thought is still fresh in my mind, how many Harbour Lights will fit in a shipping container? Maybe we could have a "guess the amount" contest for a free HL for the closest person or ten. Anyway, my thought was how many of each light are shipped in the first order? How many "dealers" share in these? I think there are 20 reliable dealers that I have seen listings for on the HL website. Yesterday I browsed through those in California. I found 32 listed, 6 with websites, and two more with email; but only two with any lights listed for sale. I really do imagine a greater amount of viable dealers on the "Lakes" and the East Coast, but it lends me to ask--how many dealers can there be when the Edition size has decreased to 1200-1500 units? Just food for thought, which reminds me..I'm getting hungry!

Good Monday Morning!

Ok from the useless "information bin"; the number of pieces in a 20' or 40' containers always varies! Some SKU's are packed 12 per carton, while others are 8 per carton and some LLOM are 60v per carton! Sometimes a container is not fully loaded or in some cases, you cannot fit a pencil in the container, it is so full!

When a new limited edition is released, the first order is about 550 pieces and any of the more than 1000 Dealers nation wide can place an order!

The number of Replicas in the "auto-ship" is privileged corporate information! As the individual, who introduced the "auto-ship' into the collectible industry, it is unfortunate that Harbour Lights is the last collectible resource to "auto-ship”.

The number of Collectible Dealers in the United States is steadily decreasing! Why? Simply eBay! The electronic store has killed the collectible industry. This was an industry built on "CPR" "Close Personal Relationships”, when I started 27 years ago, most dealers had a MI Hummel "Expert" on their payroll or an individual, who knew Harbour Lights from A-Z, most of those Dealers are long gone! The tastes of a new generation, the result of too many too fast and limited editions in the 10,0000 have changed the collectible industry!

Will it change? I believe so ... good quality product always wins out!

AJC

Good Morning Tony,
There is no "useless" information, just "used less" information . Thanks for the insight about the HL questions. You just know I have more, though.

My calendar tells me it is the middle of March...yes, I am looking for the Product History update that I have anxiously been waiting to read.

Also, shouldn't it be time for the quarterly Lighthouse Legacy PDF to surface. Should I call Patty to check on it?

Last week I bought an Avery Point HL. Inside was a card that said, "This could be your lucky day!". It also read, "return the card by 02/28/2005 and you could win one of Bill's personal collection of #1-10 Editions". On that date 10 HL customers would be drawn to win these rare and valuable editions. Is there anyone who would know about this and what happened?

I also would be interested in learning the results of these special drawings where we had to send in a special card or ticket with our name, etc. filled out on it. Over the last few years I believe I've filled out and sent in these cards at least twice to be in a drawing for a valuable HL piece like a gold piece.

Could anyone let us know if the winner's of these special HL drawings were ever posted and who and what they won?? and how to locate the winner's postings?

Interesting....

Many of us knew what happended to Bill's personal collection of #1-10 Editions as they were sold over several opportunity programs in the last 2-4 years.

But I never heard about this before 02/28/2005 program that you are talking about? This is a first.

I'm listening......