Having a "brain cramp"...

Things have been more than hectic in my little corner of the world lately, and I'm having a brain cramp. Perhaps one of you can help me out on this matter.

Did I hear there was something mentioned about recognizing Harbour Light Collectors who have a "complete collection"? I thought this subject came up at the CF after Kim had said something about it.

Does anyone recall that being said by Kim?

Bob

Sorry, BOB, I've not heard anything. But I believe it's a neat idea. What is needed though, is a very strict definition of "Complete Collection." For example, does it include:

Variations - color, metal, etc.
Country of Origin - California, Canada, Malaysia, China
Does it include LE's only? What about GLOW's, Collectors Society, Special Editions, British Pharos Collection, Christmas Pieces, Little Lights and AB's?

Like I mentioned, I think it would be a great idea.

Sorry Bob, I wouldn't think this is a good idea as it could be perceived as a slight to those who, for one reason or another, do not have a complete collection.

Ron
(CT Keeper)

While this is a great idea, and even though I have a "complete collection (one of every limited edition lighthouse and Anchor Bay", I too feel that it would be a downplay on the other collectors that either started too late or decided to take another route (ie. LLOM, GLOWS, areas, lighthouses visited, etc.). Very interested idea though.

I'm still trying to remember where I heard about a possible recognition of collectors who had a complete collection of HL's. I was thinking a little about it this morning and thought maybe the subject was brought up at a chat late last summer or early fall. I also remembered that it might have been mentioned originally by Kim to a person who participated at that particular chat. I seem to remember that it was planned for sometime this spring or summer.

I have to disagree with you on that point, Ron. Anyone who has spent the money and time building a complete collection deserves recognition from Harbour Lights. It means they've bought one of every single HL ever made. I'm talking LE's at this point. I'm not talking GLOW's or variations, strictly LE's. Has anyone ever stopped to figure how much money is involved in purchasing a complete collection at retail? Then think about the complete collections that were built when the secondary market was at its peak. We're talking a substantial investment.

Rich, like I stated to Ron above in this reply, I don't agree with this being a "downplay" to other collectors who don't have a complete collection. I look at it as an incentive for collectors to try and fill in those few missing pieces to close the gap to a complete collection.

Let's hear from some more folks on this subject!

Bob

Bob
I think that this is a great idea that large collectors get recognition.
However, no way should the recognition go to just those that have them all, but by how many the collector has. I do not have them all but with all the variations that I have collected, I have more then If I had them all. I probally have over 300 L.E.’s. Why would a collector like me not get recognition too. I think the follow would be more fair.

There could be several different stages of recognition like:
1. Collectors with 50-99 L.E.’s and/or GLOWS
2. Collectors with 100-199 L.E.’s and/or GLOWS
3. Grand recognition for collectors over 200 L.E.’s and/or GLOWS

This would get more collectors involved and the big collectors would get recognition.

Bob,
I'm torn!!! I like your idea though, since I came to HL's, the Society and the Forums late, I have not had the opportunity to get all of the offerings. I remain fairly true to my original decision to get only those lights I've been to or for whatever reason view as "cool".
I am expanding my horizons some as the "disease", a phrase I 1st heard from Dennis Wheland at St. Augustine, has become more serious.
However, I do not think that at this point I would ever be inclined to acquire a complete collection.(Unless of course one was offered to me with an offerI could not refuse.)
Those "veteran" collectors, like yourself, should be recognized as you are probably as responsible for the success of HL collecting as anyone. Since I've been a collector I look at the success of such things as the HL Collector's Society, these Forums, the clubs formed nation wide. I seriously doubt the interest in LH preservation would be as widespread as it is if people like yourself had not spread the word and "kept the flame". Your passion has spread to someone like myself. You folks should be recognized!!!
Since I have been quite active in purchasing those lights that interest me, and have acquired over 100 since 1996 I can agree with Daniel that some way to recognize avid collectors is a good idea too!! We've caught the "disease" from you and hopefully we may be able to "infect" another generation!!!
This topic seems to have an interest that will develope like a snowball rolling downhill and I look foward to watching it grow on these Forums.
Rick

Hi Rick, ...I don't consider myself a "veteran" collector when you figure I didn't enter the hot & heavy stage until 1997. The true veterans are those who started with Harbour Lights back in 1991 or close to that time.

I really don't know how many of those people are still actively collecting. There are so many things that work against them. The main problem for most is where to put all their HL's. Lack of storage and display space is usually the begining of the end.

Another problem is justifying the expense after you retire. Once you enter the world of "fixed income" and "down-sizing", decisions have to be made as to what will you do with 200-300 collectible lighthouses. This is why you see such things as rare HL's on eBay and lower autoship numbers becoming available. People reach a point where they just can't do it anymore, physically and financially.

The future of lighthouse collecting lies with the younger members of the group. Their earning potential often allows expendible cash to purchase new pieces from dealers and older pieces from the secondary market. They are the passionate collectors. They have a collection to build and rare pieces to find.

Our most veteran collectors have what they have and usually are just in the autoship/maintenance stage. A new light is introduced, purchased, taken out of the box, inspected, put back in the box, and then put into storage. Every once in awhile, the smile factor appears and that piece goes on display instead of into storage.

Different strokes for different folks...

Bob

Last year at the Anoclote lighting, Bill told me something about Kim and him talking about collectors with them all. I don’t remember it being said that they would get special recognition, but since you brought this to my attention, Bill did tell me they were interested in the collectors with them all.

I just check my spreadsheet and I am 33 lighthouses short from having them all.
They are the very common ones and can be picked up cheaply. I ran out of room and started focusing on variations.
If this thing comes about I better start and get on ebay and complete my set.

I will take any recognition I can get.

Hi Dan,...If you want to cut the number of pieces needed to complete your collection from 33 to ??, let me know. I have plenty of doubles and triples in my collection and would be willing to cut you a great deal. I need to reduce my inventory of extra pieces. I'm running out of room to store them.

Bob

I think that I would have to agree with Ron and Rich on this topic. Probably not a good idea.

Achieving such a goal is great but if HL's were to reward those that finacially can accomplish it might cause resentment among those that would like to but financially cannot afford a complete collection. There are many collectors that have spent MANY dollars purchasing Harbour Lights products and consider themselves just as serious a collector as those that have complete collections. Lets face it, at todays secondary market prices, you better have unlimited funds or that goal is far out of reach. Of course you could always re-mortgage the house, and even then you better have a big house!

I just don't like the idea of anyone being put on a pedistal because of money. Sort of falls under Orwells vision of "Big Brother". Of course it is a good marketing strategy for HL's!!!!

There !!! Now I can get rid of that soap box I dug up today.

No "brain cramp" Bob. I remember some sort of conversation regarding this issue. Not the particulars as to where, when, etc. Probably right here in the forums somewhere. As I don't nearly qualify it's a moot question for me. If HL ever decided to give you folks something special it wouldn't bother me a bit.

Honestly, folks, I can't see where the resentment part comes in. We're not talking an Honorary Doctorate Degree here. The prizes aren't going to be a new Harley Davidson or Corvette Convertible. It could be as simple as a framed certificate of accomplishment.

A perfect example of a simple thing recognizing certain collectors was with the HL519, the Point Fermin CA Mini Charter piece released in 5/99. You guys remember that one. It recognized the people who had been with the Collectors Society since the begining. Nice touch, I thought. The rest of us were offered HL528, the Point Fermin CA Mini. I didn't hear anyone complain about not having access to the Charter piece.

Perhaps I should clarify where I'm headed with this. Has anyone figured it out yet? What's that you say? I have a complete collection of LE's, AB's, Lenses, ornies, but not GLOW's, and I would like to be recognized?

If you guessed that, your close but not right on the money. What I want to see, before it's too late, is a recognition of all those folks who either bought every piece from the beginning, or made the effort to backfill all their missing pieces in their collection. Pardon the expression, they are a dying breed. They were the faithful who supported Harbour Lights through thick and thin. Now they've come to a point in their life that they just can't do it anymore. Some no longer have the space to continue to add to their collection. Some have health problems and can't handle the work involved with displaying, storing, and caring for their HL's. Some have gone to a fixed income that doesn't allow any expendible cash.

These are the people who are reluctantly dropping their autoship. These people were the original purchasers of those low flag#'s and other rare pieces that have been popping up on eBay. They were the pioneer collectors of Harbour Lights and now they are singing, "Happy Trails".

The older pioneers are being replaced with younger collectors (no pun intended). The younger generation are becoming the new keepers of the flame. Will they ever be able to accomplish what the older pioneers did? It's possible, but expensive. Yet again, the older pioneers bought everything at retail except for a couple of hard-to-find secondary market pieces. Nowadays, the new collector can jump on eBay and buy pieces for half their original cost or less.

This is all about commitment, ladies and gentlemen. The clock is ticking. Each pioneer collector that stops collecting is a lost opportunity to recognize him or her for being a major contributor to the success of Harbour Lights. Never forget that the success of Harbour Lights has meant so much to lighthouse restoration across our country. If you're reading this, it's because you are interested in lighthouses and HL's. That makes you a contributor.

Bob

Recognition, whether for who can persevere from the begining or write the biggest check, is a form of feedback we all enjoy. But... where to draw the line? I have a friend who has something like twenty Smith and Wesson revolvers... quite a collection in my eyes... miniscule in others. And... I know they won't send him a certificate. Oddly, he has more invested by a substantial margin in his revolvers than I do in my 200 or so total pieces (LE's, GLOW's, AB's, dupes, etc)... and they sure take up less space than my H-L's - especially those boxes! Oh yeah, mine don't have to be locked in a safe (I don't have an original Hatteras...).

Besides, Bob, the passage of many moons since one's hatch date negates the need to apologize for cranial flatulance... or so I say!

BTW, I often consider my collection 'complete'... until I get a new newsletter or catalog, of course...

John

Hi John, ...Guns are like diamonds and gold. They really hold their value. I feel I could probably buy more than twenty hand guns (not commemoratives) for what I've spent on HL's over the years. I don't like guns, even though I wear one for a living.

Another world heard from! Who's next?

Bob

P.S. - If you visit your friend and notice he's stock piling ammunition and he has erected a tower next to his house, consider moving out of range from his place.

I was just pondering a few thoughts and a couple of past recognitions came to mind. The recognition was for a small group who mananged to accomplish some things all collectors had not.

The first that came to mind was a special clock giving to those faithful HL collectors who attended not one, not two, but all three HL Reunions. Now that was quite a feat as far as I'm concerned. They deserved to be recognized for their support of Harbour Lights and the expense of traveling to far and away places to show their support.

The second thing that came to mind was the recognition of those faithful HL supporters who managed to attend each and every HL Regional last year. Once again, quite a feat as far as I'm concerned. It isn't cheap to travel to all those locations.

Does anyone get where I'm headed with this?

Bob

Bob,

I have no problem with recognition for Uber Collectors. I can understand others who do , though.

It's that old dichotomy of a wanting everything to be equal for all and having something special for a select few- however those select few are defined.

As for where you are going with your last post- unfortunately down a dead-end street. You're not going to change anybody's minds on this. I vote for the recognition of hard core financially able long term Collectors. It's not me, of course but I have no problem with it.

Dennis

Bob,
I also have no problem with the recognition.

HL can verify the validity of the two examples you cite - attending all reunions and all 2003 regionals. How would they verify a "complete" collection?

Joyce of

Stop by the Harbour Lights Midwest Museum!

Actually I tend to agree with Ron Foster on this, Bob, even though I am sure I qualify since I not only have what you listed but also have all of the Guardian Lights, Open Edition Lighthouses and a complete collection of the Little Lights!!

There is no doubt in my mind, Paul, that you are the ultimate and probably one of the top HL Collectors in the world. I seriously doubt that anyone can top your accomplishment. You would definitely qualify for a double-gold matting with a platinum frame for your achievements.

Dennis, it's hard for me to understand why anyone would object to having a recognition as an incentive to collect more HL's. The more HL's that are sold produces more revenue for the company we support, which in turn produces more awareness of the lighthouses we are trying to restore or protect. It gives the very serious collector a definite goal to achieve. It makes the maintenance of a complete collection more worthwhile.

That's the best question of the thread, Tom & Joyce. How can they truly know if you have a complete collection? They certainly can't come to your home with a former IRS Auditor and start counting. Would people be honest? Would there be people would would submit a false inventory of HL's? I would like to think that people would be honest but who actually knows.

Three more collectors heard from...who's next?

:rolleyes: Bob :rolleyes:

I guess the thought of recognition for a complete collection has died a slow death. The replies were interesting. I guess it indicates that there is no reason for anyone to "get them all" from the past, or to buy pieces they don't like in regards to new releases.

As our charter or orignal HL Collectors fall by the wayside, as our heavy-hitter collectors experience display and storage space problems, the rare bird owners of complete collections will soon be a thing of the past.

The following would be reasons not to maintain a complete collection:

1. Too expensive a proposition; people of retirement age cannot justify the expense.

2. Display/storage space is limited. Why keep spending the money to leave these little treasures in boxes in your attic or cellar.

3. Secondary market prices and overall worth has dropped below the original retail price. Many people bought HL's as somewhat of an investment. Some pieces do well but many more HL's have turned into "dogs".

4. Overall interest in collectibles, not just HL's, has dwindled. Now we are facing record increases in gas prices which in turn will drive up prices on everything. Collectibles are usually purchased with expendible cash (in most cases). Now people will need that extra money to pay for basic needs and not minature lighthouses, etc.

:rolleyes: Bob :rolleyes: