I just kinda got caught up with my forum reading - looks like the pin thing is a hot potato.
For what its worth, here is the complete text I originally sent my part of the discussion on this topic in a
private E-mail which was relayed to Lamar and LadyLightkeeper
Hi guys,
[Blank] writes: "We need to encourage discussion not racing to a specific number to
become a Wacko."
That pretty much says it for me. I haven't paid much attention to the pin thing. I had the impression it was organized by a few individuals and not tied to the forums or a forum participation requirement. Maybe I misunderstood. (Maybe I should get out of the FSB more often. LOL!)
I'm inclined to think it should not be endorsed as an official Forum thing and prefer it be organized by individuals and offered to whomever wants to buy one. Guess I need to catch up on the pin threads. If its an official Forum thing - then I agree with [Blank] that it should be available to any member. Thats my view without knowing too much about it, and I'll support whatever you think is best.
Merry Christmas,
Pretty much my standard laisze-faire attitude, and I'll stick by it. Heck if someone wants to sell a pin, whether it says 'Wacko' or 'Smash the GLOW Molds Now!'
then more power to 'em - thats just American capitalism at work. As for me, if I really want to contribute to lighthouse preservation, I'll write a check to a preservation society.
Having access to the full exchange, its only fair to note that the original message in Pt I of this thread is an editorialized account of what people said.
Trying to temper my words, I'll simply remark, the public posting of an exchange done in private was pretty darn tacky and in poor taste. I had no problem with JC sharing my remarks via E-mail with the pin people. However, if I write to someone via E-mail, I don't expect to see my correspondence splayed out in a public forum - whether my name is attached to it or not. It would have been very easy for any of the Saints to have held the discussion in public if thats what they wanted to do. But a private exchange of messages is exactly that - and should be respected. Paul is correct in suggesting the whole business was blown entirely out of proportion. The first msg in this thread does nothing but incite people's feelings for no apparent reason. Goodness knows theres already been a bizillion messages from people saying they want to buy a pin.
So for the sake of accuracy, here's the follow-up message I sent on 12/26 to my fellow saints after seeing the msg. JC sent to Lamar.
Thanks for passing along this correspondence, John. I did not realize these pins had the word 'Wacko' on them - I just thought they were a custom made pin. I kinda feel bad for Lamar having had this dilemna dumped in his lap.
In reflecting on this a bit more - the status of Newbie/Wacko is already a part of the forum. The pin project is simply a reflection of a hierarchy that already exists.
I can look at this in a couple different ways:
1) I think about being in the Cub Scouts. We had pins that showed your 'rank' - the rank was earned by completing tasks and learning skills. (was it Wolf-Bear-Lion? gosh its been a long time) While the pin was the outward sign of one's efforts - the real worth was the accomplishments it took to get one. (The only one that ever mattered to me was my Eagle Scout pin as a Boy Scout).
2) [Blank's] original post that prompted this discussion sez: ""...The exclusivity of the Wacko Pins is not in the spirit of good clean fun and collecting. ..This whole ...attiitude ..about being a Wacko is completely against the Harbour Lights attitude about collecting. " It sounds like the concern is as much with the idea of a 'rank' as it is with the pin. So I ask the question - is the Newbie/Wacko distinction the real concern or is it this pin? If the concern is about turning off potential new contributors - then wouldn't the distinction itself do that whether or not there was a pin? (I must say it strikes me as kinda ironic that on the one hand there is a concern about discouraging people who might not be able to purchase the pin because they haven't posted enough, and on the other hand a concern to keep the forums exclusive to HL.)
Personally it doesn't really bother me to have the Newbie/Wacko distinction - I'm not big into the 'political correctness' thing. If someone sticks around long enough to post 50 messages, then I certainly consider them an active participant, maybe even a 'regular'. But it doesn't go much beyond that. So in my mind 'Wacko' simply means an active forum participant, and not much more. I don't think the distinction discourages participation, do you?
So here's my solution: let Lamar go ahead with the Wacko pin thing if it says 'Wacko' on it. But let's have a badge for Newbies. A Newbie may only be around for a couple messages and since they can also turn into Wackos they may not be Newbies for very long. So make the Newbie badge out of cardboard. Maybe JC or another artistic type can draw up a badge with the word 'Newbie' on it (like the ones with BY on 'em) and post it on the forum. Anyone who is a Newbie can print this and paste it on a piece of cardboard and wear it proudly. (I'm laughing to myself as I type this - I hope you are too) as they sit at the computer. Once they post 50 messages they get the Wacko title, so they become eligible for a Wacko badge. This way anybody who cares can have a flippin pin and not feel left out. :-)
Hope ya'll are enjoying your holidays and your time off,
Not exactly boogie-men jumping out of the closet, eh?
Part of the reason for writing this is cause I'm a little ticked off, and partly because the original posting was made without sharing all the other correspondence that went on with this brou-ha-ha and thus is an incomplete representation of the facts. And some of this coulnd't have been posted because the poster wasn't privy to it, and is not aware of the complete discussion. All the more reason to keep a private discussion private. The quotes from myself above, are only my part of the exchange and include a quoted portion from another already made public.
For what its worth, in my opinion the entire conferencing among the Saints was entirely in good faith and out of a concern for the this forum and its participants - that concern solely being that someone might feel left out because they had not reached Wacko status. Whether you agree or disagree, isn't it a good thing to at least give those sort of concerns some thought? It was not, as some messages hint at, a comment on the people who wanted to do this pin thing, and I didn't perceive any of my fellow Saints as "naysayers".
Believe it or not, the folks that work these fora, Saints in particular, have nothing but the best intentions and a concern for the positive well being of the message board and for our hobby - I'm proud to call each of them my friend. Having been here from before the start, I've seen lots of different folks come and go. I'll blow off the remarks about 'animosity' and 'slamming' by figuring that whenever you get this many people together there's bound to be some misunderstandings over just about anything. You can expect agreement and you can expect disagreement. Just cause someone disagrees with you (or agrees with you) shouldn't be taken personally. Just be willing to respect other peoples right to have an opinion - and - respect other people by keeping private communications private.
Rgds,
__
/im
And to answer JeffB, I think there's been a couple posts where we hit 50 inside 24 hours.
[This message has been edited by JTimothyA (edited 02-02-2000).]