I am in a minor huff over eBay's latest gimmick, the "Buy It Now" feature. I think that it significantly alters the nature of the auction and tends to skew the data that I use to get a market fix on the models that I track.

I am at the point where I am seriously considering excluding "Buy It Now" auctions from my Market Watch database . Since I share this database freely, it is as much yours as it is mine (although as supreme ruler and dictator-for-life, I get the final say-so ). Therefor, I am soliciting your input and opinions. Should the BIN data be excluded or not? Why or why not? Thanks for your input.

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-el Presidenté Arturo

I have the opposite reaction Art. If I found a HL that I had been looking for at a price I was willing to pay, I'd use that option to buy it now. Now suppose Oracoke was up there, with a starting bid of $175 but I could buy it now for $275! $325 - maybe! Would I? Last week I would have but I was lucky enough to find one on Marketplace! A lot of vendors were already doing that unofficially on other type auctions where they would tell you if you didn't want to take a chance on the auction, you could call or email them and buy it for a price. This was normally where they were auctioning one but had several available.

Should you count the price? Yes, like it or not that's what it sold for!

I have to agree with Bob on this point.

If you are tracking the price pieces sold for you can't exclude some just because you don't like the method. Well you could, but it would nullify the usefullness of the information. It's function is to show the average range of prices for items, therefore it must use all available sales to do so.

But, again, this is only my opinion.

Dennis

I think you should ignore the prices for those sold this way. These sales don't reflect the price that might have been attained in a "free market". As an example, last week or so a White Shoal sold for $50 on this new basis which is clearly below the recent market prices.

Larry

Art... I agree with you in certain situations. Here is what I mean - I have been monitoring the sales of the Fresnel Lens on eBay. Since the "Buy It Now" feature has come out, two Fresnel auctions have opened utilizing this feature. Ebay item number 518075837 came out on 3 DEC with it's auction ending on 8 DEC. You can buy that Fresnel now for $179.00. The last few days has shown a considerable reduction in the value of the Fresnel. Average for the last 11 Fresnel auctions is $142.65. The $179.00 "Buy It Now" price is not indicative of the average sales for the Fresnel. Early November yes, but not now. Apparently, the seller of this lens still believes there is a sucker born every minute, and maybe, have high hopes of having many successful auctions of this nature in order to have a PSII under the Christmas tree for their kid. The other seller using the "Buy It Now" feature (eBay item number 518338874) has set their price at $150.00. Still a bit high, but much more realistic with the averages. Personally and IMHO, I would leave those eBay items using the "Buy It Now" feature completely out, especially where you have many of the same pieces for auction like the Fresnel Lens.

Tim - Keeping the flame lit...

I vote to include all sales in your average. To exclude any would not give you the total average you are looking for. Today it could exclude the "But it Now" feature and tomorrow it could be some other exclusion. It will be hard to draw the line. I have used this feature when i see something i want and i think the price is fair.

Just an opinion....

Happy Collecting!

What I gather with the " buy it now" offer is that it is the same thing as a met reserve price. In other words it is the lowest price the seller will take for the item. But I was wondering if the seller has only one to sell and if someone buys at the buy it now price does the seller remove the item from the auction or does he have more then one? I dont think it would be fair to remove the item from the auction once it has been placed up for sale. Thats my opinion. Hal

A sale is a sale. The secondary value will have it's highs and lows until it's true demand presents itself. Once the lens is known to have more than 4,000 collectors looking for it the prices should naturally start steadily increasing with demand. The prices jumping up and down is due to nothing more than people scrambling to get one. These people more than likely have not exhausted all their resources to find one at retail. Why would they do this? They can afford it, they are new collectors, they are searching to fill a christmas list...etc. There are many reasons. The point is Ebay is a factor and regardless of whatever fancy selling technique that some may like or dislike it's a sale. All sales should be tracked. What a piece will be selling for today will never be set in stone. It's what the seller want's to get out of it and what the buyer is willing to spend. If you aren't filling a Christmas list be patient and find that deal or better yet buy one at retail. How can you establish a secondary price when they haven't all be shipped yet?

I'm not sure what a "Free Market" is or is not but the $50 sale of White Shoal should certainly be included. They can still be found on dealers shelves at retail as well as Colchester Reef. I hate to burst some bubbles but there are lighthouses out there that aren't worth retail. Another example might be Navesink. I have seen countless Navesinks discounted as well as Anchor Bay if you would like to throw them into the mix.

It's all part of the puzzle.

imho

[This message has been edited by SThompson (edited 12-05-2000).]

Hal, I think the way it works is when someone uses the buy it now feature the auction is over. If someone bids less than the BIN price that feature is no longer available. The main use I could see for it is that many dealers that use ebay can use it for a classified board. I think Art pointed that out in his other post. Now, many things that I buy I check ebay before I purchase. On most things that have been available and can be reasonably shipped, I have been able to save 40% to 60%. The BIN feature just speeds up the process for the buyer and the seller. I feel that it is up to the seller to decide what to do. I personally do not want to sell a piece that might bring 225.00 for 160.00 just because that is what I might have in it plus 15%.

Many times auctions will run past the "average" resulting in a bonus for the seller. I, as a seller want to get the maximum out of an auction that I can. The BIN feature keeps that from happening.

On the other hand if I am looking for an electric razor that I could buy at Wal-Mart but instead purchase on ebay and get it shipped to my door and save 40%, then I think it is a good deal. I believe these are the sellers that ebay had in mind when they started this feature.

As far as whether the HL auctions using the BIN should or should not be counted in the tracking. I don't know. I am tracking them in my records.

I do feel that it is up to the individual sellers to keep the market up. If sellers are willing to take considerably less for a specific piece and enough of them are available, the prices over all will definitely go down. Of course we all know that simple economics lesson.

I see the BIN feature as a calculated risk- you have an assurred sale at a price you determine is your lowest price balanced against a nonsale altogether.

If you have misjudged the market, then someone will try and bid on the item which automatically negates the BIN feature. It is in play only until a bid is made. I see it as an out in the open Reserve price, as oppossed to one that people have to keep uping their bid to to find out what your minimum price is.

I agree that it loses some of the possibillity of a larger than average price, but it's a trade-off that sometimes is beneficial to all if done carefully. You have to set the BIN price at a reasonable level- not too low and not too high.

Dennis

Well, I don't think it is a very practical service. First, it's not really like a reserve because a reserve can be met but the item is still available for higher bidding. Many times a reserve is set so the seller gets his minimum desired amount, but the bidding goes on so they could get much more for the item. With this buy it now, once someone pays the price, it's sold. I suppose if a seller sets the bin price too high, it won't sell for that amount, but at the highest bid, so they may not even get the desired reserve. Does anyone know if that is the case? If the BIN is not met, does the higest bid win?

Joanne

The bidding goes back to the regular setup as soon as one bid is made on an item that has been put in as a BIN.

The BIN price is only available before a bid is put in. If someone bids then the piece goes to whoever bids the most at the end of the auction just like any other regular auction.

I did not mean to say that the BIN was exactly like the Reserve price feature. But they both take away from a straight auction. it makes the bidder play a different game.

You are right that the piece could go for less than the BIN as opposed to not being able to go for less than the reserve. this is part of the trade off- if you set the BIN correctly, that is high enough, and someone wants it now you get what you want(your price) and they get what they want(the piece). If you go the other route and use a reserve and it is not met you get nothing and have to pay the fee anyway.

Dennis