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Updated LEs? #79439 04/30/04 12:24 AM
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seagirt Offline OP
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I don't know if this is the right place for this, which is pretty lame considering I have been here for over 18 months...anyway...

I was looking over the HL site today seeing if any of the lights we saw on our Seaway Trail trip were available in LLOM. Somehow, there is not a single NY Great Lakes lighthouse LLOM. Go figure. So I looked in the LEs.

I started my quest in 1991. And I noticed something. The original Harbour Lights are cute, and definitely valuable. But they're also a little funny looking. There is less detail in the pieces. Within these first couple years are also all the "Major" lighthouses of the US.

Alot of people I'm sure want a Cape Hatteras or Coquille HL, but don't have the money. For the price, these pieces are extremely detailless. They are still very cute. But detailless. Today's HLs are accurate down to how many bricks there are on the tower. So I got an idea...

How about updating the LEs? Making special modernized and affordable versions of early lights. But not GLOWs. There would still be a limited run. This could allow people to get higher-detail pieces of major lights that can be displayed and more appreciated by those who have no idea what HLs are. Old favorites could be turned into new classics. The price of the new one will stay low in the secondary market for a while, as it will be newer.

I don't know...let me know what you think. I don't own any LEs, let alone early ones, but through these forums, I feel I own a little piece of every one of your's collections. Let me know what you think. That's why it's in the Fog Signal Building.

Re: Updated LEs? #79440 04/30/04 09:19 AM
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I give it a resounding NO!!! . That is the one sure way to destroy the existing secondary market as we know it today for the Limited Editions that are still high. The GLOWS have already done a job on the secondary market so as far as I'm concerned the existing GLOWS, the "new lighted GLOWS" and reintroduction of limited editions for Regionals, etc. is quite enough ... If a new line of Limited Editions is introduced there will be another autoship number available to take over as I will quit collecting right now. If you want a limited edition, save for it like I did, and buy it. The collector that don't want to save can buy one of the GLOW versions or LLOM. If it is not available in one of those lines then contact HL and plead your case for them to produce it or buy the retired limited edition.


Rich
Re: Updated LEs? #79441 04/30/04 10:15 AM
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"the existing secondary market"
Bah Humbug !!! There are so few people that really care about the secondary market. That is why you can buy almost any LE on ebay and ever right here in the new marketplace for less then retail. The realty is that there is no secondary market outside of a "few" early LE's.

As for the remakes, I would like to them only if the towers are lighted like the new GLOWS.

Re: Updated LEs? #79442 04/30/04 07:41 PM
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And the reason there is no secondary market is because of the GLOWS and over production of the LE for quite a while. Now if you come out with another issue of "limited editions" Bill Younger will be going back on his garantee that he would "NEVER EVER" reproduce a second generation of pieces that had already been issued as a limited edition. He's already done it in a way with the Regional St Augustine but this piece will not have a predetermined issue size so that is a sneaky way of getting around the issue. I have a collection that I never intend to sell as long as I'm living but my wife or children may need to sell at some time and I would like to keep some of the value that I have invested in it. If you want them lighted then start collecting the GLOWS and leave the limited editions alone.


Rich
Re: Updated LEs? #79443 04/30/04 08:56 PM
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You know, I used to be in the camp against open editions and keeping the market value up for LEs. Well it seems to me that that horse has long since left the barn. There is really no secondary market to speak of for Harbour Lights and basing my collecting preferences on the hope that it might turn around is a lost cause in my opinion.

With that being said, I say it's time to have fun in my collecting and not worry about the "market" . I now buy a LLOM now and then and have OEs on my wish list. I'm a collector by nature and I love these little lighthouse statues!

I like the idea of some re-issues of older pieces in another limited run. I think there does need to be something special that sets them apart from the original though beyond a newer version. I don't thing the St Augustine regional achieved this.

I'm happy with buying and collecting a mixture of LEs, OEs, LLOMs and some LE re-issues. Maybe to me it's not so much about having a duplicate lighthouse but getting to have two unique sculptures that happen to depict the same lighthouse. If they were different enough, it's still fun collecting to me.

Anyway, that's my two cents.

Re: Updated LEs? #79444 04/30/04 09:19 PM
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seagirt Offline OP
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OK...maybe I should elaborate a bit. What my idea is is new, VERY LIMITED (e.g. 3000-4000 pieces) reruns of some early lights that are some of America's biggest. Unfortunately, though they are kind of cute, they are also kind of detailless. My idea is that these lights are redesigned, maybe with light-up, and re-released with more detailed sculptures. Alot has changed since 1991. There are better casting techniques and methods. HL has been churning out better and better lights. However, you can't get a nive looking LE Thirty Mile Point or Castle Hill. Castle Hill kind of looks like a teapot to me. Short, stout, and rounded. A new one (yes, I know that it just came out in GLOW, but it's an example of a pretty bad original) could have a more realistic look. There really is no Secondary Market, and no matter how much we all moan about it, there really is nothing that we can do.

Perhaps this could be executed in some new series--though I'm sure there are some camps that are opposed to that too. Hey, we have over 1,500 members here. We can't all agree. That would make this one BOOOORING place. I think that VERY limited runs might even help BOOST the market. The supply and demand will be more balanced. People could start to scramble for the new lights, and the prices could go higher on the Secondary. With a cap of 5,500 pieces, there will be the return of the Good 'Ol Days. Renewed Classics. Maybe not in the LE line, but still limited runs. It's either a marketing genious or a marketing flop.

Re: Updated LEs? #79445 04/30/04 10:38 PM
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Sure Greg, ask the collector who paid $2700 for a Coquille or $5000 for a CH1 if he wants whatever value that is left in the light to totally evaporate. The old 5500's are the only thing still selling anywhere. Believe it or not there are still some collectors who like the older lights just the way they are. They show a valid part of the history of Younger and Associates and don't need to be fixed. You have new GLOWS in every possible configuration, event pieces, little lights, and whatever HL dreams up next. Leave well enough alone. You can only reinvent the wheel so many times. And, HL owes something to the original collectors who bought them all, or as many as they could.

Re: Updated LEs? #79446 05/01/04 01:17 AM
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"ask the collector who paid $2700 for a Coquille or $5000 for a CH1"

fools, fools, fools

We are talking a $40 piece of painted resin here.

If they were that foolish , so be it. Some people have money to throw away. It's their choice, but that doesn't mean that the piece is really worth that much. Only a very few people would spend that much and that does not make for a market price.

Re: Updated LEs? #79447 05/01/04 02:35 AM
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The market is made by the buyers and sellers, just like the stock market. The prices are what ever the market will bear, Is a 63' Corvette in mint condition worth $75 for scrap metal? after all it's just an old car...

Re: Updated LEs? #79448 05/01/04 10:34 AM
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Bob M Offline
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Quote:
Is a 63' Corvette in mint condition worth $75 for scrap metal? after all it's just an old car...
If we were strictly talking scrap metal, Mark, you would be hard pressed to get $75 for the scrap metal 1963 Corvette (fiberglass car).

Quote:
"ask the collector who paid $2700 for a Coquille or $5000 for a CH1"

fools, fools, fools

We are talking a $40 piece of painted resin here.
It's called expendable cash, Lightkeeper. If you got it, and you can buy something that makes you smile, then do it! I'm sure everyone who purchased a Coquille LE or a CH-1, figured they could recoup a good portion of their initial investment and maybe even make a buck or two. Even if they sold them at a moderate loss, they will always have the memories of owning one of the few coveted greats from Harbour Lights. I'm sure people who part with their old classic car, gun, jewelry, or whatever would feel the same way.

Quote:
Believe it or not there are still some collectors who like the older lights just the way they are. They show a valid part of the history of Younger and Associates and don't need to be fixed.
I'm with you on this point, JJ! Last Fall, I dug the old pieces out of my storage area and put about 25 or so in my main display curio. I had forgotten about them when I was caught up with the great detail on the newer pieces. You cannot deny how far Harbour Lights has come with detail on their newer releases. They are absolutely marvelous! BUT, ....I say BUT...I have to say I have a lot of those new detailed pieces sitting in their boxes in storage why the older, simpler, and allegedly less desireable old pieces grace the shelves of my main curio. I must say I've gone full circle with my collecting of HL's and have returned to where it all started, HL101-HL149.

Quote:
Hey, we have over 1,500 members here. We can't all agree. That would make this one BOOOORING place. I think that VERY limited runs might even help BOOST the market. The supply and demand will be more balanced. People could start to scramble for the new lights, and the prices could go higher on the Secondary.
Hey Greg,... We can always agree to disagree with the varied number of personalities that visit the Forums. New opinions are always welcomed, contrary or not. Personally, I say leave well enough alone. Right now there is no need to re-release a re-release. The only people who would like that are those who collect every available model of a particular light. If people cannot afford an original, well let them buy a GLOW. If the GLOW isn't made yet, it probably will be in the future. Like all committed collectors, I hope the downward spiral of HL prices will someday reverse itself. I have no intentions of being buried with all my collectibles. My children (can you call a 35 and 28 year old children?) show no interest in carrying on the tradition of collecting HL's, storing hundreds of pieces in boxes, dusting curios, cleaning curios, spending $1000 plus each year on new pieces with limited space to put them. Whew! Keeping a full collection is bad enough but then I added a ton of doubles and triples and whatever. Sooner or later, something has got to give.

Quote:
I give it a resounding NO!!! . That is the one sure way to destroy the existing secondary market as we know it today for the Limited Editions that are still high. The GLOWS have already done a job on the secondary market so as far as I'm concerned the existing GLOWS, the "new lighted GLOWS" and reintroduction of limited editions for Regionals, etc. is quite enough ...
Rich, ...I have a one word answer regarding your post... DITTO

Quote:
There is really no secondary market to speak of for Harbour Lights and basing my collecting preferences on the hope that it might turn around is a lost cause in my opinion.
Tim,...You are partially right. The well-known Secondary Dealers of the past are gone, but not forgotten. Prices are definitely lower than ever and a secondary market person as a buyer is doing well, but as a seller it basically stinks. The secondary market is still a reality. Check out the New Marketplace here at the CF. Check out eBay when those older rare pieces appear. People are still willing to buy certain pieces while there are other pieces you can't generate any interest at any price. If you believe in keeping the flame, then you have faith.

Enough said for now...

smile Bob smile

Re: Updated LEs? #79449 05/01/04 11:57 PM
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Have to give my 2 cents on this one!

My first purchase was a Coquille--just because I wanted that piece. I had a few GLOWs that I'd received as gifts and wasn't really into collecting. A Coquille came up on eBay shortly after I'd purchased a copy of the GreenBook of Harbour Lights pieces. I looked up the piece because I couldn't fathom why a sculpture I could hold in the palm of my hand would have such a high starting price. I put in a sniper bid using my hubby's buyer site (I wasn't even hooked to the internet at that time) and read the GreenBook while I waited for the auction to end. I lost out with a bid of $2,500. Between that loss and the reading of the book, I was hooked big time!

While waiting for the next Coquille to come up for bid, I began collecting in earnest. Buying sequentially, I stayed with the early pieces until I had all of the first 17 excluding CH1. I e-mailed a secondary market seller after seeing his ad in Lighthouse Digest and asked if he had a CH1. (At that point, I would have second mortgaged my home to get that piece.) We rolled on the floor laughing when the shipment arrived and we had to open the box on the front lawn because it wouldn't fit through the door! Inside the outer box were two smaller boxes packed one inside the other and MOUNDS of styrofoam peanuts that I'm still finding in the carpeting some 3 years later. I made a special place for that CH1 and beamed like a Cheshire Cat every time I passed it.

As many of you know, I recently purchased a 2nd CH1 (the first one has a white tip, the 2nd has a green tip)--again because I just had to have it. If a black tip comes up, I'm probably going to go after that one, too. My jaw is hurting from the grinning I do now every time I pass the "twins."

I don't care that the originals are of a lesser quality than the limited editions HL is now making. I wouldn't dream of replacing what I have with a newer version. The only "replacing" I've done is with a lower numbered piece which is why I have a number of LEs for sale. Replacing them with a newer, more detailed sculptures would be like replacing an antique with something made today.

Yes, the secondary market's in the toilet. So was the stock market and it's beginning to pick up. I lost big time in the stock market and had faith (somebody did mention that word) that it would turn around. It has--at least what I hold has had some appreciable gains. I have faith that the Harbour Lights market will pick up again and when it does, I'll be back at it. Only this time as a seller.

Some may think me foolish, some have no idea why I'm so nuts about collecting and displaying my collection. I don't have to give a reasonable explanation to anyone as to why I feel as I do. I haven't had this much enthusiasm over something in years and I hope it only gets better.

Would I be against reissuing LEs as more polished pieces? You bet I would! eek eek

Re: Updated LEs? #79450 05/02/04 10:13 AM
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Some may think me foolish, some have no idea why I'm so nuts about collecting and displaying my collection. I don't have to give a reasonable explanation to anyone as to why I feel as I do. I haven't had this much enthusiasm over something in years and I hope it only gets better.
I totally understand, Sandy! You are a true HL Wacko! There are a lot of Wackos out there in various stages. Many reach a plateau and never get to the peak. I believe you're very close to the peak. You certainly have made a sizeable investment in rare HL's.

Just think about the "rare bird" wackos that have curios full of extremely rare pieces and have no one to share them with. The people who frequent the CF get to share their HL experiences and the joy that comes from finding, buying, and owning a very desireable collectible. Collectors who are not connected to the Net are missing out big time. Some may not even know what their rare pieces are worth and how to sell them if and when the time comes.

Does anyone dare venture a guess on how many complete or near complete collections there may be out there that we don't know about? Are we talking a handful of collectors? Maybe a hundred or so? Could there be more than that?

What do you think will happen to their collections when the time comes? Will they be passed on to a non-caring relative who will put them out at a yard sale? Will they just put an ad in a local paper and sell the whole collection for a fraction of their worth?

Remember, if they're not connected to the Net, then they probably don't know about eBay. If there is no true secondary market dealer accessible to them, they will have no idea what their HL's are worth.

I posted a little story a couple of years back, that was told to me by a dealer I stopped to visit one day. He told the tale of an old time collector who had passed on and made no arrangements about what should happen to her collection. Her immediate family wanted nothing to do with those old lighthouse figurines, so they threw them in trash bags and they went to the local landfill. Just think about how many times similar incidents happend when cleaning out Grandma's house. Kind of a sad state of affairs to a connected collector.

:rolleyes: Bob :rolleyes:

Re: Updated LEs? #79451 05/02/04 10:15 PM
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Thanks Bob. Nice to know some others DO understand.

Neither of my children (1 each) has any interest in lighthouses, but I'm keeping an inventory which includes the price I paid for each piece. Knowing my son as I do, I sleep well knowing that he'll sell them for at least what I've invested in them, if only to increase his inheritance. He's about as tight with a buck as I am implusive, so I know if I don't live to sell them, they're in good hands.

Now, my daughter would probably do exactly what you wrote of in your last paragraph and THAT keeps me awake nights! Between the two of them and my collection, I've become an insomniac who sleeps best from 4AM 'til noon!!

We just returned from a cruise in Long Island Sound, taking pictures of lighthouses I don't have sculptures of--did I mention I've become obsessed with lighthouses!!

Re: Updated LEs? #79452 05/07/04 12:15 AM
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I don't know...let me know what you think. I don't own any LEs, let alone early ones, but through these forums, I feel I own a little piece of every one of your's collections.
That's nice to hear and we're happy to share. Now, let's talk about that that forum community rider on your homeowner's policy ... (vbg)

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