We watched the fall of Harbour Lights in 2012. Are we going to watch the fall of the Harbour Lights collector’s forum in 2014?

It takes money to run and the money is running out. The participation on the forum is next to none and interest in HL is just a twinkling of a flame on a candle stick that is about to be blown out. This Forum in my opinion is the last string in holding the Harbour Light Collectors together. I don’t know how Harbour Lights is doing on Face Book, but one thing for sure, it doesn’t carry all the history and memories of collecting like the forum does.

I suggest a raffle ticket like we did before, where the veteran collectors donate a rare HL for raffle.

Or maybe members buy a yearly membership to keep the forum alive.

I don’t know if we have enough collectors anymore to do any of the things I listed but I thought I would just put this idea out there for a reaction.

I'd like to see the Collectors Society make a comeback. Maybe the forums could be linked with membership, so some of the money goes to keeping the CF alive.

While all of the suggestions above are noteworthy, the simple solution to this problem is to buy an additional set of Wisconsin Points for $75.00. We have enough of the WPs left to keep the Forums going for a couple of more years if everyone that wants to keep the Forums going would buy an additional set.

I, for one, don't want to see the Forums go away, but, I cannot see donating a rare piece for a raffle like I did before just to keep the Forums alive for a short time when we have the simple solution of just buying an extra set of WPs. A yearly membership dues would be an idea to keep in mind once the WPs are all sold but let's sell them first. Also, with a yearly membership how would you control the non-members viewing the Forums and would you make a new member wanting to join pay a membership fee? Also the idea of the Collector's Society coming back will never happen because there is not enough interest left for this to happen.

I made this post over a month ago and got NO RESPONCES so I think the chances of the Forums surviving has about as much chance as the Cleveland Browns winning a Super Bowl. Here is my post:

"My wish, in talking to Dave Hannum last week is that you buy a Wisconsin Point Forum Exclusive. It was mentioned that we are starting to get low on funds to keep the Forums going and that we will run out of money towards the end of this year. I understand that we have both a monthly fee and a yearly Domain fee. We have paid the Domain fee and have the monthly fees covered thru the end of this year. After that you can say "GOOD BYE" to the Forums UNLESS we can sell out our remaining Wisconsin Point Forums Exclusives that are still sitting in Dave's garage.

The existing offer of 2 Exclusives for $75.00 with free shipping still applies and the with the sale of each set for $75.00 we have almost enough to pay another month's fees. You don't have to be a Forum member to buy a set, and if you don't want a set, I'm sure Dave will sell you just one exclusive for $65.00.

Please, if you enjoy visiting the Forums (member or non-member) and you want to continue visiting we need help to pay the fees and you CAN HELP by buying our Forums Exclusive."

Oh, by the way, I don't think that even one set was sold. The immediate solution is to buy an additional set of WPs and give them away as gifts or use them as book ends! Have you bought an extra set as I have?

Sad as it may be, I think the time is coming to let the forums go. No one more than I has enjoyed them while participation was at it's peak. Daniel and Rich I know how hard you've tried to keep things going but it just doesn't seem to be working. The "forums exclusive" was a good idea one time, the 2nd time it bombed and Dave got stuck with all the non sellers. While we may not all be fond of Facebook it is out there as a way to "connect". It seems if you aren't facebooking or tweeting these days you're just not with it. Such is life. Things change. Some of us adapt. Some don't. I've made lots of wonderful friends through the forums and have many fond memories of past events. Nothing can take that away and those folks are still out there, many of whom are reachable through Facebook or personal email. HL died a slow death. Ours is even slower but I'm afraid it's coming.

The reason I suggested other alternatives to raising money was I didn’t want to put all of my hope in the Wisconsin Point to save the Forum. The raffle at least brought us all together on the forum and was fun. I also don’t want to some day in the future go to the forum and its nowhere to be found, with no warning, except with an email from Rich saying we ran out of money.

The Wisconsin point wasn’t a total failure, it just wasn’t as successful like the ELL. It did make us some money and it kept the Forum a float for several years now. But on the other hand I think we milked this cow as much as we can and we need to seek a back-up plan.

This is why we don’t give up on the Forum and let it die like every other aspect of harbor Lights has.

1. As I have said before the forums is the documentation of the History or Harbour Lights. It is filled with 16 years of the rise and fall of Harbour Lights. Thousands of post packed with information that will be lost forever. Even if we don’t post on it anymore it should be kept alive as a living testimony of HL and as an open research Library.

2. Because we can keep it operational. Just using a little foresight and some planning it can stay operational.

3. The loss of this forum is another nail in the Harbour Light coffin. The forum still keeps us connected and informed. Like the latest news of the Bob Ott collection for sale. I have bought three so far.

4. The ability to still buy and sell without using EBay. There are still transactions happening on the trading post.

5. I also feel that the loss of the forum would hurt our HL secondary value. Out of sight , out of mind, loss in value.

I made this post to get us all thinking and see who all is still on board

Daniel - I have always had positive thinking about the Forums and have always thought that when push-came-to-shove the Forums members would come through. Now I'm starting to think the other way.

The volumes that I'm putting together are a way to save the information that you are talking about, but, with 80+ collectors requesting these volumes I have only had 4-5 members that are willing to answer my requests for information. That's a pretty poor percentage. This leads me to believe that maybe Mombo might be right with the idea to let the Forums die. The majority of the members feel the other person will help or that they don't have the time or that if they bury their heads in the sand that everything will be ok.

If you want to really see if you get support from the members and non-members then the people that really want to help will help by buying the Wisconsin Points that we have left. If this happens and we can support the Forums for another year it may give us the time to put together a real plan. Just asking for donations will not support the Forums since collectors are not paying attention to the situation we are in. I personally sent an email to the 80+ members telling them of the future of the Forums and how buying another set of WPs would help fund the Forums for almost a month and only got 1, I REPEAT, 1 response.

Everything you said above in you 5 items is or will be true except for item #1 as 90% of the information hidden somewhere in the Forums has been documented. Items #2 thru #5 is yet to happen but will happen if the heads are not removed from the sand.

I'm not contradicting your post or anything that you say, but, there is not the support or fellowship we had on the Forums during the heyday of Harbour Lights. Most of the "HURRAHS" back then were older collectors and collectors looking for an investment to pass on. The Lighthouse Fad has passed and with it the support that we need to keep the Forums solvent. The only chance we have in the immediate future is to sell the unused Wisconsin Points that are sitting at Dave's house.

Daniel -Another thought is to start a poll in the Voting Booth Forum to see just how many collectors are willing to support your ideas.

If anybody (member or non-member has an idea on how to save the Forums before the money we have put aside runs out, please contact me at flacoastie@embarqmail.com with your thoughts.

I'm guilty.

I posted to the Forums infrequently. I stopped collecting well before the demise of Harbour Lights. I haven't purchased either of the Forum Exclusives.

The plight of the Forums can be attributed directly to long-time Harbour Lights fans like me who have largely become ex-fans.

I have a suggestion though. I agree with Daniel that there is a great deal of historical HLs information contained in the records of the Forums. I agree that it would be a shame to lose it all.

There is an Internet Archive/Wayback Machine. If the Forum pages haven't already been archived, it may be possible to make that happen. Then the information and flavor of Harbour Lights that exists here and nowhere else (sorry Rich, you've done great work, but it cannot replace the HLs community built around the Forums) would be preserved for as long as the Internet survives.

I see the numbers from the 'Online in the last 24 hours' sidebar, 12 is the number as I write this. One cannot post before logging on. There were 347 Guests over the last 24 hours. So something like 3% of visitors to the Forums in the past 24 hours were logged on and potentially actively supporting the website. Not good numbers for the future of the Forums.

Even if the Forums survive, I'm afraid I'll still be guilty. I think keeping the forums open is a case of good money chasing a bad business case. Harbour Lights is gone. Like the gold in the mountains of a nearby Gold Rush town. The town's reason to be has disappeared. There a few people still trying to squeeze out a living, but the end has already been written.

Rick

Rick - I agree with your 3% not being a good figure but there is the other 97% that may or may not be collectors, but, at least they are looking at the Forums. While even in the Forums Heyday only about 7-8% actively participated and they were always the same 7-8% of the members.

The history is gone from the Harbour Lights Website since the Domain is up for sale. The only history that we have left is from the Forums and we will also stop having that available unless something is done.

There are several "irons in the fire", so to speak, that could help save and revive the "fire" but I cannot comment on them at this time. Meanwhile, your comments are always beneficial to read so keep them coming.

Well I'm back here today looking for some of my old posts for a friend.
I certainly would not be in favor of letting all this great information disappear!

SOF

Any brainstorms Bob????

How many Wisconsin Points does Dave have left? I am willing to donate some pieces to auction whatever it takes to keep this forum going. I enjoy checking this forum most every day. I miss the chats that we had every week. I sure hope we can come up with something to keep the forum to continue. Hal

Quite a few of the WPs left I believe and there might be something coming that could help us keep the Forums alive for a little bit longer so hang in there.

I myself would lean more towards a raffle or a fee of some type instead of purchasing the Wisconsin Point lighthouse. While it is a nice light and is for a good cause the last thing I really need is another lighthouse to store somewhere. I have so many now that I can't sell and have no room for. I want to downsize to just mainly Michigan and Ohio lights and my Anchor Bays but can't because I guess for lack of interest and because most collectors here have most of the same lights I have. By the way Rich, that was a cheap shot on my Cleveland Browns but sorry to say, true.

Tom Simpson

Tom - I'm allowed to cheap shot the Browns. I come from Erie, PA and have been a Browns fan since 1955. I used to watch the Browns play every Sunday, either at Municipal Stadium or on TV (B&W) with a antenna rotor that was turned toward Cleveland. Otto Graham even autographed my white w/black striped football (that I still have) and sent me a white practice jersey of his which was also autographed (don't have that anymore). I WOULD like to see them win a Super Bowl before I'm to old to enjoy it. The last great game they won was in 1964 when they beat the Baltimore Colts in the NFL Championship game (last one before the Super Bowl started).

Just thinking out loud, but any thoughts on eBaying the remaining forum pieces? one of month until they are gone to pay the bills of the forums? Just a thought…

We tried that before and would have to sell a couple a month to have enough to pay for one month. On top of that I don't think we sold more than2 the whole time we had the EBay listing.

Thanks for the suggestion.