Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58347
11/16/05 03:51 PM
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It's almost time to reveal the January 2006 Harbour Lights releases. By reading this magical message, you might be able to decipher the names of the next releases. One light shares a name with a U.S. president. We can't tell you who, just yet. You'll need to break this message into sentences to figure it out for yourself.
A cat you know might like one of them. But don't let this riddle send you to your burial place. Use the powers of Cayce. A fairy might help to see another. Give up -- oh fooey! We thought you'd guess all ten by now. You can see them all when the next online “Lighthouse Legacy” is released for Harbour Lights Collectors Society members on Monday, December 5. Are YOU a member? Remember the Legacy is again a membership benefit. www.HarbourLights.com/society/ I can't confirm or deny any of your guesses or answer any questions here, by phone or email. Don't bother poking around on the website. Nothing will be uploaded until December 5.
If you want to guess, my suggestion is to post your complete list of 10, not one at a time. Otherwise, you may be just helping others fill in their own lists.
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58348
11/16/05 05:01 PM
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rscroope
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Owl's Head (who) - Hoo Robin's Reef (cat) - catfood Graves Light (burial) - see Digger Poe Reef (Cayce) - Cayce write about Edgar Allen Fowey Rock (fooey) - Tinicum (fairy) - Tinkerbelle Pt Wilson (Pres) - Pottawatomie (magical) - Harry Potter East & West Chop (break) - Kung Foo
:rolleyes: No Huntington, Plum, Eatons
LONG ISLAND BOB
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58349
11/17/05 12:04 AM
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Only one guess?? (Bringin' this to the top.)
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58350
11/18/05 02:36 PM
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Bigbird
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Weeeelllllll, I'll take a shot eventhough you've thrown me on at least one or two of them, and though I may agree with Bob on some of his, there are other possible options, but I think I only have 9 to give: (I was going to break them down too, Bob :p but didn't)
East Chop, MA (Telegraph Hill - Decipher)
Point Wilson, WA - (President)
Owl's Head, ME - (Who)
one of the un-done breakwaters (perhaps Buffalo - for you bottle-light cravers) - (Break)
Bird Island, MA or Cat Island, LA - (Cat)
Grave's Ledge, MA - (Burial)
Mystic Seaport, CT - (Cayce)
Bristol Ferry, RI - (Fairy/Ferry)
Fowey Rocks, FL - (Fooey)
Steve
Health through education, for a much misguided nation!!
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58351
11/18/05 07:50 PM
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Rock
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58352
11/20/05 10:53 PM
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Still not many riddle-solvers participating. Did I mention the 10 might include some LEs and some GLOWs?
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58353
11/21/05 11:30 AM
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Bob M
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Sorry, JC, my mind is going a hundred miles a minute with the emergency brake on so my riddle solving allotted time is at an all-time low. I can selfishly hope for more lights from the northeast. I would also love to see some very different and unusual lights released, and I don't mean rubber-footed blinking lights. Bob
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58354
11/21/05 05:05 PM
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mombo
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How about Monhegan Island, ME? Rumor has it the place is crawling with fairies???
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58355
11/21/05 08:07 PM
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beachcomber
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John, are you sure the Legacy will be ready and online Monday, Dec. 5? I don't want to get up early just to be disappointed!
beachcomber
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58356
11/23/05 10:27 AM
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Yes, Grace. Any other sleuths out there going to guess? Bob Scroope's got the best idea in his post showing the clues he used, even though he's not guessed many of them correctly.
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58357
11/23/05 10:50 AM
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rscroope
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Sorry John, best I could do in 10 minutes!
LONG ISLAND BOB
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58358
11/24/05 12:54 PM
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Bigbird
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ME, ME...HOW ABOUT ME????!!!!!!!????? Steve
Health through education, for a much misguided nation!!
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58359
11/24/05 04:56 PM
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Yea, Steve, you got a few... Here's a bit of an aid. How many sentences are there in the riddle? All but one of the sentences contain a one word clue for a different lighthouse. Extra credit if, like Bob Scroope (and now Steve), you name the lighthouse AND include the one word clue. Looks like HL is moving UP the date for releasing the Legacy to December 1. Won't know for sure until Monday. Finally, if you give up, the list of lighthouses can be found here.
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58360
11/24/05 07:56 PM
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beachcomber
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I was wondering about Steve, too. How many does he have right - that would help.
beachcomber
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58361
11/24/05 09:46 PM
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:>X Can't say Grace; didn't say how many Bob got either.
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58362
11/28/05 11:26 AM
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Just a few more days to unwrap the riddle.
Karnac
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58363
11/28/05 02:41 PM
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beachcomber
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Really looking forward to this issue - and to see who got closer Bob or Steve.
beachcomber
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58364
11/30/05 05:26 PM
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Bob and Steve have participated but I can see that the rest of you need some hints. (Bob & Steve are free to modify their guesses with these hints.) It's almost time to reveal the January 2006 Harbour Lights releases. By reading this magical message, you might be able to decipher the names of the next releases. One light shares a name with a U.S. president. We can't tell you who, just yet. You'll need to break this message into sentences to figure it out for yourself.
A cat you know might like one of them. But don't let this riddle send you to your burial place. Use the powers of Cayce. A fairy might help to see another. Give up -- oh fooey! We thought you'd guess all ten by now. Key words are in bold face. Three GLOWs, seven LEs. So copy this list and paste it into your response. Make your best guess (one lighthouse per word). Leave blank the ones you don't know. 1. Almost - 2. Magical - 3. President - 4. Break - 5. Who - 6. Cat - 7. Burial - 8. Casey - 9. Fairy - 10. Fooey -
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58365
11/30/05 09:13 PM
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beachcomber
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beachcomber
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58366
11/30/05 09:16 PM
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Who WAS taking those odds on Grace reaching SUPERWacko status by year-end? See she's already at 400 and has a whole month to go! Heck, she could take two weeks off and still make it.
We love ya, Grace! Thanks for hanging in there and participating.
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58367
11/30/05 09:37 PM
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beachcomber
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The holiday season is taking its toll. I have a deadline which I have set for myself (not telling) but may not make it. Thanks for the encouragement, John.
beachcomber
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58368
11/30/05 10:11 PM
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ericlighthouse
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1. Almost - Neenah 2. Magical - 3. President - Port Washington Breakwater 4. Break - Portland Breakwater 5. Who - Owl Head 6. Cat - Morris Island (GLOW) 7. Burial - Gravelly Shoal 8. Casey - 9. Fairy - 10. Fooey - Fowey Rocks
Eric, Florida Keys Reef Lights Foundation; Godfather of Jones Point River Lighthouse; member and District Commissioner of Florida Lighthouse Association et el
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58369
12/01/05 10:43 PM
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Bigbird
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Waiting for the bewitching hour of today...12/1!!
Health through education, for a much misguided nation!!
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58370
12/01/05 11:00 PM
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beachcomber
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It is Dec. 1, isn't it?! I thought for a bit there that maybe it wasn't December yet. Of course, I don't believe that John ever confirmed if the date was moved up from Dec. 5. How about it, John?!
beachcomber
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58371
12/01/05 11:02 PM
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flacoastie
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Grace - You only have to average 3.5 posts a day to have 500 by Dec. 25th. I'm betting on you to do it. And just think, you were the one lurking for all those years not wanting to post. Keep it up Lady, I know you can do it.
Rich
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58372
12/01/05 11:14 PM
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beachcomber
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You and John put the pressure on, but you have been my biggest cheerleaders, too. Things slowed down during Thanksgiving; everyone was too busy to post. I'm afraid the same thing will happen as we get closer to Christmas, so I have to really stay on top of this situation. It's too bad that I didn't get involved before; I certainly have enjoyed having so many "pen pals" and enhancing my collection since I started as a "regular". Thanks, Rich.
beachcomber
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58373
12/02/05 05:14 AM
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Looks like it will be Monday the 5th for the news. This gives the procrastinators a weekend more to work on the riddle. Some interesting leaps from the clues to the guesses. "Fairy" -> "Tinkerbell" ->Tinicum Funny, but wrong. Read the whole sentence. A Fairy might help you see another.
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58374
12/02/05 11:42 AM
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CAVR
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I'm stumped!
All I notice in that sentence is "See", which only means See's Candies to me! ....darn I guess that's not lighthouse related but sure is tasty. :p
-Christopher "CAVR"
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58375
12/02/05 11:59 AM
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Cana Fan
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Have any of the guesses been right so far, without telling which ones? Mike
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58376
12/02/05 12:14 PM
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MtnHkr
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A Fairy might help you see another A wild guess would be Conimicut LIght as seen from Bristol Ferry Light.
Bert
No mountain is too tall if your first step is belief. -Anonymous
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58377
12/02/05 12:21 PM
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Originally posted by Cana Fan: Have any of the guesses been right so far, without telling which ones? Mike Yes.
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58378
12/02/05 04:41 PM
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beachcomber
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I had a similar thought, Bert, that maybe it's a light which can be seen from a ferry (homophone of "fairy"). Are we st-r-e-tching it too much for you, John?
beachcomber
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58379
12/02/05 10:54 PM
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And probably the most famous homophone fairy in America is... (Tell 'em Bob.)
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58380
12/03/05 12:36 AM
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While Bob Scroope (or anyone else) is pondering the best known ferry...
Focus on "a cat you know..." rather than (what) "a cat you know will like..."
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58381
12/03/05 01:48 AM
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Bigbird
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I kinda gave up after perusing the most popular of all of the lights again, even with the new clues, but I gave fairy as ferry (apparently wrong, eh?!?), but not necessarily FROM a FERRY; but I did a Google on Tinicum and a lot of the links spoke of fairys. Didn't read them to see the relation, but apparently it's more than Tinkerbell to Tinicum!?!
Steve
Health through education, for a much misguided nation!!
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58382
12/03/05 01:51 AM
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Bigbird
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Originally posted by JChidester: While Bob Scroope (or anyone else) is pondering the best known ferry...
Focus on "a cat you know..." rather than (what) "a cat you know will like..." I thought in that direction too, but only could think of Felix and Garfield! :rolleyes: Steve
Health through education, for a much misguided nation!!
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58383
12/03/05 02:24 AM
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You're gonna kick yourself, Steve. Think of a real cat, not a cartoon one. I know you know it.
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58384
12/03/05 02:36 AM
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MrsTLC
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Probably out there a bit...but how about Cat Island Light Gulfport, MS
Ruthie "Where words fail, Music speaks"
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58385
12/03/05 04:04 AM
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bonnebert
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Just got a few minutes to check the forums, and a "fairy" "ferry" that I can think of is the Statin Island Ferry, maybe Robbins Reef???
Joyce
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58386
12/03/05 06:27 AM
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MrsTLC
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Hope it's okay to try again...how about... Lions Head Lighthouse on Lake Huron? Lions Head
Ruthie "Where words fail, Music speaks"
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58387
12/03/05 03:10 PM
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beachcomber
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beachcomber
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58388
12/03/05 09:02 PM
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beachcomber
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Okay, my only two guesses are
Almost - (presque = French for nearly) - Old Presque Isle LE (I don't believe there is one yet) or New Presque Isle GLOW or Presque Isle, PA GLOW.
Cat - Morris I. GLOW
Will Harbour Lights ever update their databases? I would love to be able to just access their website for information. (Can do so only through 2001.)
beachcomber
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58389
12/03/05 09:34 PM
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Bigbird
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Yeah, I forgot to plan for the GLOW's!! Steve
Health through education, for a much misguided nation!!
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58390
12/04/05 11:13 PM
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Originally posted by bonnebert: Just got a few minutes to check the forums, and a "fairy" "ferry" that I can think of is the Statin Island Ferry, maybe Robbins Reef???
Joyce And the Staten Island Ferry reminds you of Robbins Reef? I think you're still thinking of the Cat clue, aren't you Joyce?
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58391
12/05/05 01:01 PM
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rscroope
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Bonjour! Just back from Pari! Tink or Tinkerbelle is the response to John's jabbing. Bob
LONG ISLAND BOB
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58392
12/05/05 01:16 PM
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beachcomber
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I'm still waiting. Today is Dec. 5th, right? I guess you didn't specify what time today the Legacy issue would be on - maybe opening time for HL?
beachcomber
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58393
12/05/05 02:25 PM
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Bigbird
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Okay, now I KNOW this site has made the "Big Time" as our little thread has made the Google Search:
Collector Forums: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
Otherwise, here's what I was referencing when I searched Fairies and Tinicum:
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2005-35,GGLG:en&q=tinicum+and+fairies
Coincidence?!?
Steve
Health through education, for a much misguided nation!!
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58394
12/05/05 03:08 PM
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beachcomber
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Maybe the Legacy issue is on Google!!
beachcomber
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58395
12/05/05 05:14 PM
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MtnHkr
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Cheked the Harbour Lights website and nothing up on the site yet.
Bert
No mountain is too tall if your first step is belief. -Anonymous
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58396
12/05/05 05:20 PM
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Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 6,801
rscroope
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It's not going to go up until all the dealer's know. Bob
LONG ISLAND BOB
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58397
12/05/05 05:26 PM
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MtnHkr
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Any idea as tow hen that will happen, Bob? Lot of us anxiously awaiting the news.
Bert
No mountain is too tall if your first step is belief. -Anonymous
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58398
12/05/05 06:38 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 408
Bigbird
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So anybody figure out the connection between Tinnicum(PA) and fairies??
Steve
Health through education, for a much misguided nation!!
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58399
12/05/05 07:43 PM
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It might be a couple more days before the list is released - my fault. Kim & Rachel are out of town and I was slow in making the final revisions for the Legacy.
Possibly will get OK by email, but I'm tied up tonight from 6 pm until midnight at a meeting and working.
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58400
12/05/05 08:16 PM
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SDudley
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Oh No, this is like telling me that Christmas is now going to be on the 27th.
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58401
12/05/05 08:23 PM
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beachcomber
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How many lumps of coal can one John Chidester get?!!
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58402
12/05/05 08:32 PM
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Posts: 13,047
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Saint
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Posts: 13,047 |
So Sorry...
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58403
12/05/05 10:06 PM
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,102
Bob Ott
Cruise Director
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Cruise Director
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,102 |
John, Are you really sorry? bobo
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58404
12/05/05 10:42 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 408
Bigbird
Wacko
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Wacko
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 408 |
Ahhhh, you one big tease John Chidester!! Steve
Health through education, for a much misguided nation!!
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58405
12/05/05 10:45 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 6,227
flacoastie
Saint
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Saint
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 6,227 |
I was talking to HLs today and they indicated it would be next week before the Legacy is out. I hope John is right about this week.
Rich
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58406
12/06/05 10:46 AM
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Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 6,801
rscroope
Saint
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Saint
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 6,801 |
Originally posted by Bigbird: So anybody figure out the connection between Tinnicum(PA) and fairies??
Steve Tinc Tink Tinkerbelle
LONG ISLAND BOB
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58407
12/06/05 10:58 AM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 408
Bigbird
Wacko
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Wacko
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 408 |
Yeah, I got that Bob, you weren't going in the direction I thought, but did you see that there was a connection between Tinicum(PA) and fairy's?? I was wondering the connection and thought that that was an odd coincidence if it wasn't the direction you sought.
Steve
Health through education, for a much misguided nation!!
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58408
12/06/05 12:17 PM
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 907
CAVR
Super Wacko
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Super Wacko
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 907 |
CATS and Ferrys ..... hummmmm,
How about the Yarmouth Lighthouse in Nova Scotia?
"The CAT" Ferry docks here during its trip from Bar Harbor, Maine to Nova Scotia, Canada.
I think a bigger riddle to solve is whether or not "we" collectors will ever find out about the new releases directly from Harbour Lights or if we collectors have to guess this year releases until the ones we mention here in the Collectors Forum are quickly produced!
-Christopher "CAVR"
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58409
12/09/05 12:05 PM
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,221
ericlighthouse
Super Wacko
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Super Wacko
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,221 |
Not that good at detective stuff, but I did get 3 right.
Eric, Florida Keys Reef Lights Foundation; Godfather of Jones Point River Lighthouse; member and District Commissioner of Florida Lighthouse Association et el
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58410
12/09/05 12:22 PM
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Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 12,331
Bob M
Saint
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Saint
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 12,331 |
Well, this thread went way beyond the usual 50 posts before starting a new thread. I apologize for not paying closer attention to that fact. Another BBS I'm involved with automatically files the posts in pages so you don't have to close a thread and open a new one. It seems when several threads are opened up as new after an original thread has been closed at 50 or so posts, people are more hesitant to keep the topic going mainly because they don't, or won't go back to the previous thread to read what was said last. Due to the fact the new releases have now been announced, I don't suppose people will be trying to solve the "riddle" much longer, therefore, we'll let this thread conclude itself. If anyone wants to make any closing comments, please feel free to do so. Bob
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58411
12/09/05 02:09 PM
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Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 13,047
Webmaster
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Saint
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OP
Saint
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 13,047 |
1. Almost - presque Fr. - Old Presque Isle MI 2. Magical - mystical - Mystic Seaport CT 3. President - Clinton - Port Clinton OH 4. Break - breakwater - Portland Breakwater ME 5. Who - whoo - Owl's Head ME 6. Cat - cat you know; Morris - Morris Island SC 7. Burial (Place)- grave - Graves MA 8. Casey - Edgar Casey - Edgartown MA 9. Fairy - Ferry - Staten Island NY 10. Fooey - Fowey Rocks FL
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58412
12/09/05 05:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,904
beachcomber
Member
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Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,904 |
Well, I am pleased that I guessed correctly that we would get an Old Presque Isle LE and a Morris Island GLOW. Now, if I could just see them!! Mike says he hasn't been able to access the HL website either, so maybe there's some maintenance going on?!
beachcomber
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58413
12/12/05 10:54 PM
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Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 3,681
MtnHkr
Cruise Director
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Cruise Director
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 3,681 |
I have a question! You can see them all when the next online “Lighthouse Legacy” is released for Harbour Lights Collectors Society members on Monday, December 5. Are YOU a member? Remember the Legacy is again a membership benefit. What happened to the Legacy?
Bert
No mountain is too tall if your first step is belief. -Anonymous
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58414
12/12/05 10:58 PM
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Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 13,047
Webmaster
OP
Saint
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OP
Saint
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 13,047 |
Awaiting a list of emails for CS members from HQ in EC. Hope it will be tomorrow that the EM goes out the CS paid up members.
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58415
12/13/05 12:49 PM
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Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 12,331
Bob M
Saint
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Saint
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 12,331 |
I still miss the gone-but-not-forgotten hard copy of the Legacy we use to receive by conventional mail. I wonder if there will ever be a chance that the new ownership will reinstitute that publication? Bob
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58416
12/13/05 09:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 8
volunteerflamekeeper
Junior Member
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Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 8 |
I also miss the hard copy of the legacy. My eyes would sparkle, when I would pull that envelope out of the mail box! I really wished, that they had took suggestions from the members and or took a vote! I would gladly paid more than double the dues, to keep it the way it was!
Jimmy
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58417
12/13/05 09:33 PM
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,102
Bob Ott
Cruise Director
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Cruise Director
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,102 |
Me too, Jimmy. Me too.
bobo
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58418
12/15/05 06:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,904
beachcomber
Member
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Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,904 |
Maybe Don will consider going to a hard copy. I like being able to keep my Legacy copies in a binder where I can go back to review or find information. I do that with my old copies of Lighthouse Digest and the old Rutherford publications.
beachcomber
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58419
12/15/05 07:41 PM
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,221
ericlighthouse
Super Wacko
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Super Wacko
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,221 |
What are Rutherford publications?
Eric, Florida Keys Reef Lights Foundation; Godfather of Jones Point River Lighthouse; member and District Commissioner of Florida Lighthouse Association et el
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58420
12/15/05 09:18 PM
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Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 13,047
Webmaster
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Saint
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OP
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Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 13,047 |
You'll need to do a search on "Rutherford" or "HLSG" - he was a member here for a time. One example.
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Re: Can you solve the riddle of the new releases?
#58421
12/16/05 01:58 AM
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,221
ericlighthouse
Super Wacko
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Super Wacko
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,221 |
Eric, Florida Keys Reef Lights Foundation; Godfather of Jones Point River Lighthouse; member and District Commissioner of Florida Lighthouse Association et el
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