Below is a copy of a letter that I intend to get into the hands of Bill, Nancy, and Kim relative to all the wonderful historical data that used to be on their web site. I'm posting it here in an effort to discover what you think -- good or bad, positive or negative.

bobo

To Bill, Nancy and Kim,

This is a very basic question and I sincerely hope that you do not take offense. What has happened to all the older information that used to be available on your web site?

I remember back when I first started collecting. The product history and other similar information on the Harbour Lights Web Site was what really got me involved. Learning about the history of the sculptures became almost a passion. Had it not been for that, I sincerely doubt I would have become an avid collector.

You are getting new collectors all the time. They don't know anything about the history of the pieces. How will they learn about these magnificent sculptures? Where can they go for information?

I have to believe that it is not that costly to keep this valuable piece of historical information on the web site. Aren't lighthouses a fantastic manifestation of history itself? And aren’t the lighthousers actually players in this exciting and dramatic and ever-changing historical spectacular? This doesn't necessarily mean that this magnificent background information has to be changed on a weekly basis. Maybe only a yearly update would be required. Maybe not even that often.

I and other collectors that I know are feeling extremely sad and disappointed about this lack of important historical data. It was always fun to look at and read about the variations, flag changes, color modifications, mold changes, oddities and even the seahorses that we all know don’t exist.

Is it possible to reinstate this feature in you web site? A lot of us would certainly appreciate it, and I believe that it will help to encourage and support newer collectors.

Thank you for your attention.

Bob Ott

I like it Bob. This is an important factor in bringing in(and holding onto) new collectors. We do not even have a place in any of the collector guides anymore so there is absolutly nowhere to get this information other then the Forums and we have been "disowned" by HL because of the ruckus the dealers raised so the Forums is all we have. You might want to read any responses you get and use any good points that are made and include them in your excellent letter.

Excellent letter BoB. When I started collecting a couple of years ago, I went to the Harbour Lights website to get all the info I needed on a piece. I've gotten more info from the members on the
forum who have been collecting since the inception of Harbour Lights. I'm new to the forum and would like to know what rukus the dealers raised?

Walt

I couldn't agree more,Rich. It's amazing what is missing from the website. Wish I had printed everything, but I didn't expect it to beremoved from the website.

Cathy

I think it is a great idea. As you say this gets more people interested in Harbour Lights.
I remember when I first started collecting and reading about all the variations of the first 5500 grouping. Who knew some of the early models were made in a variety of ways. In those days there were several books on the subject, sadly they are all gone. Where can you get this information today? Maybe at this site or maybe if you are lucky you can come across an old copy of the books. What better than have this information on Harbour Lights website, its looking a little lean these days anyway.

Walt,

The dealers requested that the link from the official Harbour Lights website to the Forums be removed mostly because of the Marketplace posts.

There was some indication that a number of dealers were perturbed that items that they were stil trying to sell at list price were available at lower prices here on the forums.

This is a laughable complaint because many of the dealers (possibly even some of the one's complaining) are the real problem- there are a number of sellers on ebay that are either dealers or get their inventory from them.

This situation causes much more harm to dealers than the Marketplace here did or continues to do.

We however continue to have a link from the forums to the HL website.

Dennis

Bob
I totally agree with you. I also miss the Internet lighthouse connection. To me it is obvious that Harbour lights wants to just focus on their new production. They may have a small point about the history part. The new lighthouses just aren’t as fun to collect as the first 50. The History of variation is fun and interesting and showing this information about the early versions may take away some of the line light from the new productions. It may even inspire new collectors to buy retired L.E.’s instead of G.L.O.W.s

But on the other hand I feel that the new models and glows will keep the novice lighthouse collector happy but the History part of the web is needed for the collector that wants to expand and keep interested. I think the history part is necessary if harbour Lights don’t want to lose collectors in the long run. This is exactly what my game plan has been with “Top Ten on Ebay” to keep the fire alive with collectors and keep them collecting Harbour Lights.

Dan, your posts re the "Top Ten on Ebay" is one of my favorites! I hope you will keep them coming for a long time.

I personally feel that whatever direction Younger & Associates goes with their Harbour Lights line, our fellow collectors will forever maintain the bond here at the Collector Forums. This most informative web site is the nucleus of HL Collectors and allows us to share our feelings about our beloved collectibles.

Long live the Collector Forums!!!

Bob

Bob I agree
This Forum is the Collectors lifeline.
If this Forum ever died, Harbour Lights Collecting would take a life-threatening blow if not fatal. That’s why we must all pay are fare share in donations and time.

Totally agree, Bobo. You may want to add something about how they're already paying for the hosting - why waste the money on unused space?

I have always enjoyed the historical parts of the HL site. But now I have noticed, ever increasingly, that the menus at the bottom of the index page are shrinking.

I can understand shrinking production sizes or Society advantages for the sake of money. But for the extra few dollars a month for hosting, which HL is probably already paying, why not keep the content up?

Wow, this laptop keyboard is FAST to type on!

An excellent letter, bobo! Though I no longer consider myself a new collector I feel I am still "learning the ropes" about HL's. This site and the HL site are my 2 primary sources of information, historic or otherwise. The info at the HL site was always in one place and easily accessable. The Forums are nice and easy to use and the members are very good at providing answers to questions but it does require posting and waiting for a reply. Sometimes a questioner is unable to come back to the Forums in a timely manner to find the answers. The HL site usually had the information right there.
Just seeems this is another of the "cutbacks" that are of greater concern to the avid collector than to the casual one.
Hope you let us know the HL response when you get one.
Rick

Rick,

You are no longer a "new Collector" -- but all of us, myself included, can always learn more about this facinating hobby. That's why I miss that portion of the web site so much.

bobo

I found an old link on production changes etc. I had saved in favorites that still works.

http://www.harbourlights.com/archive/modifications/pages/canada.htm

And another one

http://www.harbourlights.com/archive/modifications/pages/countries_rods.htm

One more

http://www.harbourlights.com/archive/modifications/pages/certificates.htm

Good "save", Lonnie! Thanks for sharing the link - it will provide interesting reading for many folks, I'm sure, and will be a good reference. I wonder how many will be printing out those pages just to be sure they don't get lost again??

Lets try one more

http://www.harbourlights.com/archive/modifications/pages/artist.htm

Last one

http://www.harbourlights.com/archive/modifications/pages/open2limited.htm

Dave,

I found them while cleaning out my favorite list tonight. I printed them all before posting the links. Hope this helps.

Nice find! There are lots of links with past history all over the website. Just because they're not listed on the website doesn't mean they're not still there. Lonnie you've discovered some of the 'Hidden Johnnys' (not unlike the Hidden Mickeys in the DisneyWorld/Land scheme but more informative), "The Lost Treasures of Harbour Lights lore"! Check out the naming convention on the /archive/ url and you may be able to sniff out some more.

Here's the product list that although it's still on the Harbour Lights website it is in a very hard place to find. Screensavers/Downloads/ProductHistory
http://www.harbourlights.com/downloads/products.txt

Bob

Bob

I think you're addressing the letter to the wrong people...it should go to John Chidester...he's prob removed and/or archived a lot of info to create more space...

Rock, they still need to address their concerns to Harbour Lights/Younger & Associates, as John Chidester only removes what they want him to remove or archive..

You can expect that much of the 'missing' data and information for we hard-core collectors will reappear at www.HarbourLights.com in about 4-6 weeks, perhaps in a special area for collectors.

As several have noted or discovered, nothing has really 'gone away', but has been shuffled to the 'archive' for the time being.

Let me know what you'd like to have brought up-to-date and re-instated or created and I'll do my best to make it happen.

John,

Many Thanks. I'll post a list as soon as possible. Keep up the good work.

bobo

The Seahorse page! Even though they don't exist, it's fun to see the conspiracy theory.

Of course, all the production stuff.

The Reunion pages - I find these EXTREMELY interesting to look at - possibly my favourite archived sections. I only find them by Google, but when I do, I find them extremely enjoyable.

SEAHORSE PAGE!!

Unitl they are back on the HL web site, you can check them out here: Seahorse Page

Pages to print out for your collection information:

http://www.harbourlights.com/forms/products.htm

What's happened to the links in some of the above messages? They don't seem to work for me.

I was looking for the list for the "Seahorses".

Bert

Bert, try here... Seahorses

Sorry that list isn't up-to-date. It should be by May 31.

And Ruthie has the new link for the seahorses page.

The old stuff from HarbourLights.com has been moved the www.HarbourLightsArchives.com

Right now, my personal deadline is to complete the redesign of www.HarbourLights.com

I've designed a new page format and new navigation format at both the top of pages and in the left side-bar area.

The HarbourLights.com site will focus on currently available products without too much focus on product numbers and years introduced. If it's 'available' today, it will be categorized by type - Limited, Open, Little Lights.

Once it's retired, it moves to the new Archives site: www.HarbourLightsArchives.com

At this site, the introductory dates, retirement dates, counts, product numbers, variations, company history, etc will be found for us hard-core lovers of the lights.

You may not realize it as you're navigating either site, but you could be sent to the alternative site, depending on which has the information. You can tell by the 'banner' at the very top of the page. Either "HARBOURLIGHTS.COM" OR "HARBOURLIGHTSARCHIVES"

This second site is shaping up, but it has a lot of work yet to do. You can see the format for the individual catalog pages by looking at any of the 1991 pages, but there are hundreds more pages up to 2001 yet to reformat and it takes 5-10 minutes per page.

Once the Harbour Lights site is finished, I'll turn to completing the reformatting of the Archives area.

Meanwhile, I'm happy to receive your comments and suggestions. If you find a link not working, let me know. If you see a 'old-style' page with missing buttons, just go ahead and click on them. They still work. But no need to remind me they aren't redone, I've already got them on my list.