2010 Winter Release

Since this is about collecting the latest models I started this thread here.

Now that I've had a few days to look over the eight 2010 new releases, here is my opinion of this batch.

I'm going to start with Paul's pics here on the CF: Outstanding as always!!!

And thanks to Paul's pics we again see the amazing job Harry and crew has done with the sculpting!!!

But I think the problem is the timing with the grouping of these pieces into this release.

First off the Centennial Exposition piece: This is a very interesting history piece, but it's not really a lighthouse. Should have been given a HB (Historic Building) number similiar to the Old North Church & the Cross at Cape Henry pieces. Or maybe that Cival War piece from last year.

Next are the Maplin Sands, UK and Fastnet Rock lens pieces: For years we keep hearing how international pieces don't sell well. Then why are we getting more INT pieces since we had one last year. My opinion is they should have been spread out over a few years. I think that would have made them easier to digest into our collections.

As for the Old Alcatraz and Cleveland Harbor pieces: These are two of five Gone But Not Forgotten pieces in this release. A little too much in my opinion. One of these in this release and the other in the Summer release would have made more sense(IMO). *** Edited in: I am incorrect about the Cleveland Harbor piece begin "GBNF". Still can be found in Lake Erie!!!***

As for the Narcissus, Anchor Bay: At first I was disapointed that it wasn't a USCG or lightship release, but I have now come to like this piece. Maybe it's time to shake up the Anchor Bays!

Last but certainly not lease are the Egg Rock, ME and Stratford Shoals, CT pieces: In my opinion these two are the highlight of the 2010 Winter release. They are also the only two existing US lights in the release.

Another positive is the optional connecting of the Stratford Shoals & Narcissus pieces. Cool !!!

I keep hearing that the lighthouse selection is not there, but I have to disageee. There are between 600 to 700 lighthouse that HL hasn't replicated yet. Many of these are very popular with lighthouses that visit Door County, other Great Lake areas, the East Coast, the West Coast, Gulf Coast, etc. There are also many that are part of lighthouse challenges from Maine to Florida.

In my opinion, I think a release should be atleast six or seven still existing lighthouses, with one Gone But Not Forgotten piece. With only one specialty piece (Lens, International, etc) in a given year.

I have no problem with any of these pieces as a HL Limited Edition, except what should be a HB piece. It's just the timing.

I think I'll stop here for now. Lets hear some others opinions.

If you are saying that this is not an actual lighthouse because of it's setting then OK. But the facts remain that the lighthouse at the expo was used as a lighthouse after the expo. The lighthouse still stands today on Ship John Shoal. Here is a bit from the "Lighthouse Friends" page on SJS.

"Following the exposition, the iron tower was relocated from the park to Delaware Bay, where during the summer months of 1877 it was installed on the caisson."

Whole article here: Lighthouse Friends.

There is another article form Lighthouse Digest which shows that there is contradictory data on where the tower ended up. The Smithsonian says it went to Southwest Ledge in Connecticut and the Lighthouse Board's own records show it went to Ship John Shoal New Jersey.

As for the rest I agree with most of what you say except for me the only piece I really want is the Fastnet Lens. Curse of being a lens junky I guess.

If I am not mistaken isn't the Cleveland West Pier Lighthouse still standing an in use?

Tom

Tom you are correct!

Eric, The Centenial piece is being depicted as an event, not as a lighthouse in service. That is why I feel it falls under the HB catagory. And yes it can be said all lighthouses are historic builders.

If your adamant that it's a lighthouse, then both Ship John Shoal and the Statue of Liberty have been done already. It would then be a redo. And we know how some feel about redo's.

A bit of irony for me that both the actual Ship John Shoal and Lady Liberty are in New Jersey waters.

Tom, You are correct about the Cleveland piece. I had it mistaken for something else.

I need to edit my original comments.

Loon - Very interesting comments on your take of 2010 Winter/Spring issues. While what you say is the way you feel, there are at least 1200 other collectors feelings and thoughts to consider. I, for one, feel this group of issues is the best that HLs has done since the Youngers retired. There is a little bit of everything in this group(existing lights, lights that are gone, historical lights, a fantastic looking lens and finally a lighthouse tender that bridges the gap between old and new. This is also a group of issues that are well within an affordable price range and not overbearing on the amount of issues.

I, for one, was getting sick and tired of 20-25 issues a year and the same old thing(current lighthouses). This spark of genius by Harry/Tony in giving us a different look may be just the remedy for a sagging lighthouse economy. I was also tired of getting mostly Northern, Great Lakes and Middle Atlantic lights with little regard to Alaskan, Hawaian, Gulf and West Coast lights. You notice I left out Southern lights as a good majority of those have already been done or I would have included them in the getting tired section.

Being on autoship, I appreciate the relief on the pocketbook and curio cabinets. While I would still get them all if they had brought out 20-25 again this year, I'm estatic about only 16 LE pieces. I'm sure a lot of collectors wanted 20-25 issues so they could cherry pick the 5-6 out of the 20-25 they were interested in, but, this is what causes the glut on the market because who will buy all the other pieces that the cherry pickin collectors don't want.

HLs has got to look at the entire collector situation and try to hit a happy medium on what the majority of collectors want. It's like I told Bill Younger about 12 years ago when OEs were being brought out by the 20s and 30s each year and that is "If I wanted to collect OEs by the numbers that you are producing, I would collect Beanie Babies because thay are a lot cheaper and easier to display"(Bill always reminds me of that comment everytime I see him). I guess I was right because the LEs are still being produced and the OEs are virtually a thing of the past.

Finally on this subject, your comments are well thought out and while I may disgree with some of the things you say, I certainly am glad you said them because I may be in the minority and you may be in the majority and have said what others are thinking but don't want to say.

As a 13 year member of these Forums and collector approaching 200 HL pieces I really resent a comment made above. I used to buy everything HL produced but now limit myself to Great Lake pieces, mainly Ohio and Michigan due to space limitations and various reasons which frankly are nobody's business. So yes, I guess I am one of these "cherry pickin collectors" now. If this makes me less of a collector because I don't buy pieces which I do not want then so be it. I enjoy what I buy mainly because I truly want it. If you want to buy everything that comes out you have my blessing but don't put me down because I don't. I didn't cause the glut of pieces that were on the market, overproduction did.

Tom

Tom - I wasn't using the term "cherry pickin" as a put down to any collectors so please don't take it that way. I was using that term simply as a way to explain why we can't go on producing 20-25 issues each year just to glut the market so the occasional shopper is satisfied when they want to buy a gift. All collectors, whether autoship, regional buyers or purpose buyers(visited, personal reasons, etc.) have a reason to collect as they see fit. If I offended you using that term, I'm extremely sorry.

Rich, As long as we can agree it's OK to disagree !!!

Based on this release I have ended my autoship. I didn't mind eating one piece I didn't like each year, but this release has three. And that's only the Winter release. I think I enjoyed buying HL's better before I was an autoship customer.

I tend to agree with Tom, the large edition sizes was the problem, not the number of releases each year.

I think "cherry picking" is good. You take the good ones and leave the bad ones!

I think this release is on the weak side. If HL has an option to add a few more releases this year, I think it would be a good idea. A few of these are going to end at a fraction of there original price before long.

Where are all the suggestions from last year. Since I've been on the CF, there have been several lighthouses suggested many, many times. Wood Island, Point Lookout, and Point Cabrella are just three of those. IMO, these three would be easy sellers!

From what I heard, the Grand Tour releases from a couple years ago had great feedback from both dealers and collectors. Nobody could complain there wasn't a release in there state or region.

I like the Narcissus lightship and am very pleased it is not a Coast Guard vessel...we have enough of those already...shake up the Anchor Bays even more and produce the tender Shubrick...

Rock - The Narcissus was built about the time the Coast Guard took over the Lighthouse Service and in fact it was a Coast Guard Vessel up until the time she was decommisioned in the early 70's, racing stripes and all. I had an occasion to go on her in Portsmouth while I was attending an electronics school at the Norfolk Naval Shipyards in Portsmouth, VA. She was a beauty and well built. The "Black Ship" Coast Guard is not as well known as the "White Ship" Coast Guard, but, everyone of them, and their crews, worked probably harder then the larger white cutters. The HLs model of the Narcissus was done without the racing stripes and the Coast Guard name, but, she was all Coast Guard.

Loon - Based on your quote in your above post:

"I think "cherry picking" is good. You take the good ones and leave the bad ones"!

Who is left holding the bag on the "bad ones? The dealers and Harbour Lights are left with them. This will lead to the demise of both dealers and HLs because they cannot afford to hold the bad ones just to satisfy buyers that want to pick and choose what they want.

I'm sorry that this years issues have led to you giving up your autoship, but, this is a discussion that will not have a winner because of different trains of thoughts.

"Buy what you like, like what you buy." Many of us old-time collectors find ourselves in a position of running out of room to display and store HL's. My two storage areas are wall-to-wall, and floor to ceiling with HL's in boxes. We accumulated most of these when you could actually sell an extra to help pay for a new release. That doesn't happen anymore. The only remedy is to stop buying them or only purchae those you really would like to have for your collection. The smart collectors were those who purchased lights from their region or lights they had seen.

In regards to "cherry-picking", small edition sizes will eventual sell whether we like the release or not. There are a lot of lighthouse lovers in this country and, believe it or not, some are not HL collectors. I'm sure you've heard the term "giftware" before.

Bob

Just something to consider Loon. I have had more preorders fron non-autoship customers with this release than any previous ones since I have been an HL dealer. Those who have ordered these are both members and non-members of these Forums, which leads me to believe that this release appeals to both the "hard-core" and "casual" collector.
IMHO, as for the "discounting", as long as people buy those discounted LE's, especially members of these Forums and others who are avid collectors, the discounting will continue and the Harbour Lights brand will be a thing of the past. Collectors who buy those discounts are contributing to the demise of this brand. Perhaps it sounds like sour grapes from a retailer who has had to reluctantly discount some of the retired LE's in order to compete within the marketplace, but inevitably, HL will no longer exist if the current trends are allowed to continue.

Rich, The survival of Harbour Lights and it's dealers are controled by Harbour lights, not the customers. What product HL delivers will determine their own faith.

I have a great love for Harbour Lights. That is why I think it's important to let them know our opinions. I want them to survive !!!

Roland, I really hope I'm wrong, I have a great love for collecting Harbour Lights. And if I'm wrong you can expect me to post it on these forums!

Are all the releases doing well with orders? As you can see with my comments, I think 5 of the 8 are great. It's the other three that should have been spread out over a greater timeframe.

I've received orders so far for all but the Maplin. Not unusual that the international light gets off to a slow start. I'm hoping this one takes off because I do get inquiries all the time about various international lights. It would be nice to see a market develop for them as there is at least SOME interest there.